#774278 - 05/12/0706:31 AMRe: The Religion Control Debate Thread
[Re: Crux Australis]
Crux Australis
Permanent Resident
Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 9782
Loc: Emerald City, Land of Oz
Quote: I've heard it said that it is more believable to accept a flat earth than a young earth.
Source...
Quote: In his testimony before the supreme court, Nobel Laureate physicist Murray Gell-Mann said it would be easier to prove that the earth is flat than to prove that the universe is only a few thousand years old.
Quote: I've heard it said that it is more believable to accept a flat earth than a young earth.
Source...
Quote: In his testimony before the supreme court, Nobel Laureate physicist Murray Gell-Mann said it would be easier to prove that the earth is flat than to prove that the universe is only a few thousand years old.
are you completely misinterpreting this quote or what? what are you trying to show? what this quote means that it is SO ABSURD to think the Universe is only a few thousand years old that you might as well believe the earth is flat. it is in no way possible to prove the earth is flat especially now with modern technology and satellites. not only that but if the earth was flat, find me it's edges...
and to believe that modern humans as a species are only 6000 years old is just as absurd as the thought of a flat earth. i'm sorry to say but that is not even worthy of any intelligent discussion to be honest.
_________________________
Scarlett Johansson ~ Avril Lavigne ~ Elisha Cuthbert ~ Rachel McAdams ~ Jessica Alba ~ Kate Beckinsale
#774280 - 05/12/0708:42 PMRe: The Religion Control Debate Thread
[Re: xinx]
Crux Australis
Permanent Resident
Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 9782
Loc: Emerald City, Land of Oz
Quote: are you completely misinterpreting this quote or what? what are you trying to show? what this quote means that it is SO ABSURD to think the Universe is only a few thousand years old that you might as well believe the earth is flat. it is in no way possible to prove the earth is flat especially now with modern technology and satellites. not only that but if the earth was flat, find me it's edges...
and to believe that modern humans as a species are only 6000 years old is just as absurd as the thought of a flat earth. i'm sorry to say but that is not even worthy of any intelligent discussion to be honest.
I never said that the Universe is 6,000 years old and have never said that the human species is only 6,000 years old (read one of my previous posts in this thread).
I am an amateur astronomer and I know that the Universe can't be as young as 6,000 years old.
Also even the Earth itself can't be as young as 6,000 years. Geological (plate tectonics etc) and Biological processes occurring today could not have started as recently as 6,000 years ago.
As for human origins I have to respectfully agree to disagree. I can not accept a date of the origin of the human species of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of years ago.
#774281 - 05/12/0708:50 PMRe: The Religion Control Debate Thread
[Re: Crux Australis]
Cutlass
The Man Who Wasn't There
Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 77558
Loc: U.S. of A.
Quote:
As for human origins I have to respectfully agree to disagree. I can not accept a date of the origin of the human species of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of years ago.
#774282 - 05/12/0709:51 PMRe: The Religion Control Debate Thread
[Re: Cutlass]
Crux Australis
Permanent Resident
Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 9782
Loc: Emerald City, Land of Oz
Quote:
Quote:
As for human origins I have to respectfully agree to disagree. I can not accept a date of the origin of the human species of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of years ago.
how old do you think?
You have to answer these questions.
When did the first large scale human agriculture occur (the agricultural revolution)?
When did the first large scale human domestication of wild animals occur?
How old are the oldest archaeological evidence of established human settlements?
How old are the oldest religious relics that have been found?
What is the oldest age of evidence of human language?
If you can answer these, the date is not so long before the oldest date.
The most important is the last one. Language or complex language is something that distinguishes humans from other species. I am not sure whether the other pre-human species such as Homo erectus, Homo Habilis etc even had a language.
When is the last time that an animal posted anything on SP or any other forum on the internet for that matter??
As for human origins I have to respectfully agree to disagree. I can not accept a date of the origin of the human species of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of years ago.
how old do you think?
You have to answer these questions.
When did the first large scale human agriculture occur (the agricultural revolution)?
When did the first large scale human domestication of wild animals occur?
How old are the oldest archaeological evidence of established human settlements?
How old are the oldest religious relics that have been found?
What is the oldest age of evidence of human language?
If you can answer these, the date is not so long before the oldest date.
The most important is the last one. Language or complex language is something that distinguishes humans from other species. I am not sure whether the other pre-human species such as Homo erectus, Homo Habilis etc even had a language.
When is the last time that an animal posted anything on SP or any other forum on the internet for that matter??
i'm just curious... without evolution, how do you explain the different races of the human species?
i'm also asking Wes this question. if we were all in fact descended from Adam and Eve (no matter what race they were) wouldn't we all be one race right now?
"Homo Sapiens Sapiens" (moden humans - look it up) are believed to be around 200,000 years old. this can be proven very simply with carbon dating of fossils.
as for the beginnings of agriculture and settlements, the earliest signs go as far back as 9000 years with the Sumerians. be that as it may, it could seem very easy to you today to be able to pick up a simple tool and use it so you probably believe that since the inception of the human species they were able to talk, domesticate animals, and harvest crops but this is not so. this is like letting a newborn baby be raised by apes and then 20 years later expecting him/her to talk to you fluently.
the use of language, of tools, had to be taught from generation to generation for much longer than 6000 years. can you imagine a world without a wheel? oh the wheel... where would we be without the wheel? it may seem like a no brainer today, to come up with something as simple as a wheel but 5000 years ago that simple invention started a revolution. and still i don't pretend to know everything because there are so many mysteries to human history but to have such a simplistic view of it as the bible explains is simply naive.
i honestly think that religion as a concept is merely a human creation in an attempt to explain that which we don't yet understand. for example, how were humans many years ago, when they still believed the earth was flat, going to explain when it seemed to be raining fire from the sky? today this could be simply seen as a rare but NATURAL phenomenon, aka meteors.
_________________________
Scarlett Johansson ~ Avril Lavigne ~ Elisha Cuthbert ~ Rachel McAdams ~ Jessica Alba ~ Kate Beckinsale
Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 9660
Loc: In a country with no army =)
Quote:
i'm just curious... without evolution, how do you explain the different races of the human species?
i'm also asking Wes this question. if we were all in fact descended from Adam and Eve (no matter what race they were) wouldn't we all be one race right now?
Let me answer with a question to you all: aside from skin color, hair and eye color, build and height, what actual differences are there among humans of every race?
We all have a brain, two eyes, two ears, a mouth, one stomach, five fingers in every hand, of which we all have two (save for malformations or accidents); five toes in every foot, a heart that beats at a similar rate when healthy, blood of the same color, with the same properties, the same body temperature, etc etc.
We all show the ability to love, to hate, to express our feelings, to enjoy music, to appreciate beauty, to display artistic abilities. We all want to be seen as a unique person, we all want to be happy. We all seek out the company of others. We want success in life. We all want to fulfill our needs, be them spiritual, physical emotional or whatever.
The Human race is one. The genetic design of humankind allows for variety to occur as more mixes take place. Changes in the amount of melanin that color our skins and irises don't make us truly different, unless we let prejudice come into play.
Or maybe you'll say one human race is BETTER than another one? (Rethorical question. I don't expect your answer.)
Quote:
i honestly think that religion as a concept is merely a human creation in an attempt to explain that which we don't yet understand. for example, how were humans many years ago, when they still believed the earth was flat, going to explain when it seemed to be raining fire from the sky? today this could be simply seen as a rare but NATURAL phenomenon, aka meteors.
Let me point out that the israelites were not one of those peoples who believed in a flat earth. In the eight century B.C., the Bible said in Isaiah 40: 22: "There is One who resides above the circle of the earth".
How a man of religion in a nation of cattle breeders accurately wrote this in the eighth century B.C. is a very good question.
Of course, you will totally deny it had to do with Godly inspiration of his words because God does not exist.
Then you will proceed to invent "evidence" that this was later added to the Bible, or that the book is not as old as it claims to be, but the point is you've already chosen to believe there is no God, and you'll stand by your beliefs.
And I can't do much to change that.
_________________________ Crushingly Beautiful (tm) Ladies - (as of March 31st, 2013)
#774286 - 05/13/0703:56 AMRe: The Religion Control Debate Thread
[Re: WesMordine]
Crux Australis
Permanent Resident
Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 9782
Loc: Emerald City, Land of Oz
Further to Wes's statement above, how do you explain these verses...
Who alone stretches out the heavens, And tramples down the waves of the sea; (Job 9:8)
It is He who sits above the Circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. (Isaiah 40:22)
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone" (Isaiah 44:24)
The burden of the word of the Lord concerning Israel. Thus declares the Lord who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him, (Zechariah 12:1)
How did the writer of Job, the Prophet Isaiah and the Prophet Zechariah know that the heavens or physical universe is being stretched out or expanding? The verb tense in the Hebrew indicates ongoing activity - the Universe is continually expanding.
Quote: When did the first large scale human agriculture occur (the agricultural revolution)?
Agriculture developed from hunter-gatherer societies some 10-12,000 years ago.
Quote: When did the first large scale human domestication of wild animals occur?
About the same time.
Quote: How old are the oldest archaeological evidence of established human settlements?
Ah well the answer to that question will not give you a clear answer. If you mean permanent settlement then that is around 10,000 years ago. However, the human race is known to have foraged for the rest of its history (another 20-30,000 years) and Homo Erectus were the first hunter-gatherers. The Ice Age meant that only temporary settlement was possible. On the Russian plains, temporary homes made from mammoth bone are known to be over 20,000 years old (I worked on one such settlement two years ago).
Quote: How old are the oldest religious relics that have been found?
That depends on your view of early religious artefacts. I happen to believe (and I am an archaeologist) that Venus Figurines had a spiritual meaning and the oldest so far found is around 250,000 years old.
Furthermore, Neanderthals were the first species to deliberately bury their dead. A sign of religion? arguable
Quote: What is the oldest age of evidence of human language?
If you mean physical evidence (writing) then that goes to Mesopotamia. Neanderthals had a Hypoglossal Canal and a Hyoid bone meaning that they had the capacity to develop a language even if we have no written evidence.
Quote: I am not sure whether the other pre-human species such as Homo erectus, Homo Habilis etc even had a language.
See my point above on Neanderthals. Homo Erectus *may* also have had lanugage but the case for is tentative.
_________________________ Signed in to remove the link to a dead forum.
Previous Topic
Index
