What bill? I read the article again; I saw no mention of a bill. Just Buttars' statement and reactions.



I'd like to know the details about who's targeting what exactly. Also, are these rights that can only be obtained through marriage, or can people get them without it?



No, I meant the U.S. Constitution. That whole "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" line.

You never addressed my point that the purpose of that last bill you mentioned was to prevent the government from forcing religions into performing something antithetical to their belief system. Would it be ok with you to make Mormons perform gay marriages in their temples?



Feeling tangential this evening? What a slippery slope argument you've presented based off bills that HAVEN'T EVEN PASSED! You'd think Utah was a theocratic dictatorship by your tone here. And I mentioned nothing about my god or any other. Get off the soapbox.

Defining marriage in its classical form, as between a man and a woman (and the laws that accompany it) is not discrimination. Any citizen has a choice to enter into that agreement or not. Spare me another compassion speech.



My representation of the prevailing sentiment in the state is much more accurate than your alarmist, gays-going-into-hiding myth.

You're reading the discrimination bill backwards - in Utah, it would define religious liberty thus:

(3) "Religious liberty" means the free exercise of religion and freedom of conscience,including acts or refusals to act that are substantially motivated by sincerely held religious principles and beliefs.

Individuals, corporations, etc. would be exempt from discrimination laws if they truly felt their beliefs allowed it. What a can of worms that would open, huh?

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/0...ic-schools?lite


Passed the House and Senate in Utah.

http://www.advocate.com/news/daily-news/2011/01/19/study-finds-pervasive-antigay-bias-utah

"In the past two sessions, the Republican-led legislature has rejected a statewide antidiscrimination law to protect LGBT people in housing and employment. "

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2011/01/utah-...en-gay-couples/

"HB 182′s language is virtually word-for word from the narrowly-defeated 2006 measure, and if passed, would strip even more rights away from the same-sex couples who depend on contractual arrangements, as Utah denies them any of the inherent protections afforded to heterosexual couples."

Yeah, I guess the initial link I provided was to the bill itself, which of course didn't mention the commentary included here. Anyway, here 'tis.

You read it backwards again. Religions can let who they want get married within their churches, but once they step out on public streets, their god has to play nice like all the rest of them and behave like a civilized American. Sometimes that's going to mean the "no gays served here" signs are going to have to come down out of the diner windows.

Well...if one wants to become a member of let's say the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police)you have to comply to the rules and regulations of any instituition you want to join tgas...


Gays and lesbians are certainly welcome to become members of the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints but like anyone else if they want to get married in our temples..for one thing.. they must recieve a temple recommend and certain criteria such as the law of chasity must be met and marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God not by Man.

As members of the LDS church as well as members of other sects God has set forth His Commandments and they are keep His Commandments...you cannot simply pick and choose certain commandments that suit your personal lifestyle.

God does not comform to the morals and ethics of Man which changes and wavers like the fickle wind.

You and Foobar are all for separation of church and state which is why the founding fathers saw to it by drafting the US Constitution as it is meant to be. But you have no problem with government meddling with the affairs of religious or any other institution.

Government meddling into institutions such as religious or business institutions is just as bad as religious institutions meddling in government affairs.

So it's the old "Do as I say, not as I do" thing then? Very hypocritical.

On this, we agree. If Religious Leaders/Institutions want to become involved in politics, then they need to give up their tax exempt status.

Can God's morality be judged? It is easy to think that we can judge God's actions and judgements by our own moral standards. But how can humans judge one who is able see things on an eternal perspective when we can only see from a limited mortal perspective?

Or to put it in a human context I'm sure there were times you felt your parents were being unfair in discipling you I know I have...but looking back from a hopefully older and wiser perspective I'm sure you now realize as well as myself that they were right in the end.