#3820784 - 05/17/1203:46 PMRe: Must Read -- Alias Marx and Alinsky
[Re: Feral]
JT
Menounos Numero Uno
Registered: 08/09/04
Posts: 66269
Loc: Nueva York
Feral, who is that in your avy?
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#3821353 - 05/17/1211:54 PMRe: Must Read -- Alias Marx and Alinsky
[Re: dblboggie]
Feral
Taoiseach den fhoirm baineann
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 2121
Loc: Wandering, but not lost
Originally Posted By: dblboggie
Originally Posted By: Feral
Oh balls, here we go again. "Come out of the closet!"
Did you read the article?
Course I did, I'd never comment on someone's work without reading it first; that'd be asinine, something I've come to expect from joiners on both sides. I spent a good hour today clicking links through the LVM Institute to eventually Youtube, where 'Socialists' attacked 'Libertarian' ideas with false dilemma and compositional fallacies and 'Anarchists' argue about voluntaryism and mandatory private defense gangs. It's fascinating to me the way language itself is manipulated, the War Equals Peace mentalities that arise alongside the State God. It happens over and over again, and most fascinating to me, is that it seems to work repeatedly. Generational amnesia, so to speak. And while everyone argues the finer points of contemporary philosophy, the plutarchs seem intent on pushing us into whatever they want to call another civil war, to then step in as saviors with whatever authoritarian system might work best, or worst if you will. I wonder what they'll call it next.
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Oh balls, here we go again. "Come out of the closet!"
Did you read the article?
Course I did, I'd never comment on someone's work without reading it first; that'd be asinine, something I've come to expect from joiners on both sides.
Well, as I've had some here not even bothering to read posts of mine, and noting that in their responses to said posts, I thought it prudent to ask before commenting further.
Originally Posted By: Feral
I spent a good hour today clicking links through the LVM Institute to eventually Youtube, where 'Socialists' attacked 'Libertarian' ideas with false dilemma and compositional fallacies and 'Anarchists' argue about voluntaryism and mandatory private defense gangs. It's fascinating to me the way language itself is manipulated, the War Equals Peace mentalities that arise alongside the State God. It happens over and over again, and most fascinating to me, is that it seems to work repeatedly. Generational amnesia, so to speak.
It was the article itself, and not the chatter you may have found wandering about the LVM site, that i was referring to.
In fact, it was the article's observation and explanation of how the term "liberal" had been co-opted by the left (for lack of a better word atm) that I found interesting. It would seem to conform to your own observation on the manipulation of language.
However, I don't find the fact that history repeats itself repeatedly fascinating. It would seem that that generational amnesia is a product of human nature. And the control and harnessing of human nature is the object of any government. And the redefining of words is a classic tactic to accomplish that objective.
Originally Posted By: Feral
And while everyone argues the finer points of contemporary philosophy, the plutarchs seem intent on pushing us into whatever they want to call another civil war, to then step in as saviors with whatever authoritarian system might work best, or worst if you will. I wonder what they'll call it next.
I am just going to assume (potentially bad move on my part) that you meant plutocrats and not "plutarchs" as in a plural number of Plutarch - the Greek-born Roman citizen known best for his "Parallel Lives."
As for the plutocrats, they are only able to wield their power given willing political partners.
Of course, this has been the case throughout history. There's that pesky human nature asserting itself despite our best efforts. A person can be reasonable, people seem to resist that quality.
#3823469 - 05/19/1209:09 AMRe: Must Read -- Alias Marx and Alinsky
[Re: dblboggie]
Feral
Taoiseach den fhoirm baineann
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 2121
Loc: Wandering, but not lost
Originally Posted By: dblboggie
Originally Posted By: Feral
Originally Posted By: dblboggie
Originally Posted By: Feral
Oh balls, here we go again. "Come out of the closet!"
Did you read the article?
Course I did, I'd never comment on someone's work without reading it first; that'd be asinine, something I've come to expect from joiners on both sides.
Well, as I've had some here not even bothering to read posts of mine, and noting that in their responses to said posts, I thought it prudent to ask before commenting further.
Most folks don't. As I said before, people tend to include ideas that correlate with a predefined world view and ignore all else, and the result is debating with parrots and brick walls.
Originally Posted By: dblboggie
Originally Posted By: Feral
I spent a good hour today clicking links through the LVM Institute to eventually Youtube, where 'Socialists' attacked 'Libertarian' ideas with false dilemma and compositional fallacies and 'Anarchists' argue about voluntaryism and mandatory private defense gangs. It's fascinating to me the way language itself is manipulated, the War Equals Peace mentalities that arise alongside the State God. It happens over and over again, and most fascinating to me, is that it seems to work repeatedly. Generational amnesia, so to speak.
It was the article itself, and not the chatter you may have found wandering about the LVM site, that i was referring to.
In fact, it was the article's observation and explanation of how the term "liberal" had been co-opted by the left (for lack of a better word atm) that I found interesting. It would seem to conform to your own observation on the manipulation of language.
Very interesting, including what could be said about 'Conservatives'. Even in the early 90's probably up to 2001 it meant something vastly different than it seems to today. Direct actions taken to further manipulate speech itself give me pause sometimes. Like how 'torture' became 'enhanced interrogation' and as I mentioned earlier, 'shellshock''s transformation into PTSD. Euphemisms. Carlin said that soft words make soft people. When I was younger, I laughed at that.
Originally Posted By: dblboggie
However, I don't find the fact that history repeats itself repeatedly fascinating. It would seem that that generational amnesia is a product of human nature. And the control and harnessing of human nature is the object of any government. And the redefining of words is a classic tactic to accomplish that objective.
Quite right. I've been looking for an answer to this for a long time. I think an idea may be in nursery rhymes, as sad as that sounds. "Sticks and stones" being an interesting take on the first amendment and the initiation of force. lol.
Originally Posted By: dblboggie
Originally Posted By: Feral
And while everyone argues the finer points of contemporary philosophy, the plutarchs seem intent on pushing us into whatever they want to call another civil war, to then step in as saviors with whatever authoritarian system might work best, or worst if you will. I wonder what they'll call it next.
I am just going to assume (potentially bad move on my part) that you meant plutocrats and not "plutarchs" as in a plural number of Plutarch - the Greek-born Roman citizen known best for his "Parallel Lives."
Indeed I did, good catch. Long days end with wrong words, particularly when reading about inherent character and those with 'power'.
Originally Posted By: dblboggie
As for the plutocrats, they are only able to wield their power given willing political partners.
That goes without saying. Unfortunately, I believe they absolutely have that. Worse, is that there are far more people willing to continue participation in this theater than there are not, and I think we can see that.
Originally Posted By: dblboggie
Of course, this has been the case throughout history. There's that pesky human nature asserting itself despite our best efforts. A person can be reasonable, people seem to resist that quality.
I mentioned ants before. With humans, it seems to be a perfect < when charting population and intelligence.
Originally Posted By: dblboggie
What is the solution?
Ah, back to the mob question. You know as well as I do, better philosophers than myself have tackled this question many times. I have no idea. How does one absolutely ingrain into people the importance of critical thought? Should we use Bernays' PR ideas? Children can be taught. There are great masses of full grown adults that it never even occurs to, to question the most basic aspects of any given system. Individuals will ask me who I intend to vote for, and when I posit something such as, "we don't need a president", they get extremely tense. Also fascinating, purely from a psychological standpoint. I think I've posted this quote from Crichton before, but I've always found it interesting:
Originally Posted By: Richard Levine, The Lost World
What makes you think human beings are sentient and aware? There's no evidence for it. Human beings never think for themselves, they find it too uncomfortable. For the most part, members of our species simply repeat what they are told-and become upset if they are exposed to any different view. The characteristic human trait is not awareness but conformity, and the characteristic result is religious warfare. Other animals fight for territory or food; but, uniquely in the animal kingdom, human beings fight for their 'beliefs.' The reason is that beliefs guide behavior which has evolutionary importance among human beings. But at a time when our behavior may well lead us to extinction, I see no reason to assume we have any awareness at all. We are stubborn, self-destructive conformists. Any other view of our species is just a self-congratulatory delusion. Next question.
Crichton goes on to describe individuals and populations, and how innovation and evolution progressively tank as more individuals become involved, and how that conformity can breed eventual destruction. Mass communication and transportation become variables, as well as the speed of transit itself. Even in a fictional dinosaur context, it is important to note. And utterly fascinating. As for an answer, well...my search continues.