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#3718501 - 03/14/12 10:37 PM Atheist Billboard in Pennsylvania
Jack Sparrow Offline
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Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 2113
Loc: At Worlds End
I know that Bible can be interpreted in many different ways. But it looks rather obvious that it condones slavery.

Whew, that's a bit unsettling.


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#3718557 - 03/15/12 12:25 AM Re: Atheist Billboard in Pennsylvania [Re: Jack Sparrow]
oracle71 Offline
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Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 322
Originally Posted By: Jack Sparrow
I know that Bible can be interpreted in many different ways. But it looks rather obvious that it condones slavery.

Whew, that's a bit unsettling.


That was written in the first century AD, when EVERY CIVILIZATION ON THE PLANET PRACTICED SOME FORM OF SLAVERY. Atheists, Animists, Christians, Druids, Jews, Pagans, etc., every single one. Seriously, does no one study history or ancient cultures?

Here's a cultural lesson:
In the ancient world, there was no welfare, social security, or unemployment insurance. If you lost your home or your job and you had no savings or family close by to help you out, you were pretty well screwed. The desperately poor were given the option to sell themselves into slavery to avoid starving to death. This was condoned because at the time it was considered a neccessity, albeit an unpleasant one.

This is also why the Bible gives strict rules for the treatment of slaves. According to the Law of Moses:

Slaves must be treated well, not abused, neglected or taken advantage of.

Slaves must be given the opportunity to leave after seven years.

When your slave is freed, you MUST give generously to them.

IF a slave is offered freedom, but he/she decides to stay with their master, then they have CHOSEN to be a slave, and they must STILL BE TREATED WELL AND FAIRLY.

And keep in mind, these laws were in effect regardless of how a person was enslaved. Whether they sold themselves to avoid starving, or captured in war, or whatever other metod they came to be enslaved, these rules applied. Unfortunately, not every master in the world abided by these laws, especially not the Romans. The Romans had few if any qualms about executing a slave who did his/her duties poorly. In that sense, "Slaves, obey your masters" is actually sensible advice, seeing as how following that advice could actually keep the slave alive.

Please, if you could, show me ANY other ancient culture which explicitly gave a blanket command to be good to all of their slaves, offer them freedom, and to be generous when they do leave.

And have we really forgotted about the history of abolition? Many nations and cultures have TRIED to abolish slavery, but who were the first to actually accomplish this feat?

The first political entity to successfuly abolish slavery (that is, to make it law and consistently enforce it without re-instituting or allowing it through some legal back channel or loophole) was the State of Pennsylvania in 1780, over seventeen centuries AFTER the Bible was written. And what group was responsible for this? It wasn't atheist, it was the Quakers, a Christian group. And who were next to follow? That would be the rest of the New England states, where the abolitionist movement had taken hold through their network of churches. Very quickly after, abolitioninst movements started in other states and countries, and they ALWAYS started through Christian churches.

Now look at the world today. What nations in the world still practice slavery? Here's a hint, NONE of them are nations where the powers that be follow the Bible. There are a few Muslim nations that still at least tacitly allow slavery, but the biggest nations who still use forced labor on their own citizens are officially ATHEIST nations. The Entire Russian Gulag system and their counterparts in communist China certainly are responsible for more people forced to work against their will than any nation where the Bible has influence, or even all of them combined.

Does the Bible condone slavery? Not in the way atheists like to claim. More accurately, it recognized that slavery existed and at the time was considered by EVERYONE to be a societal neccessity.
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#3718589 - 03/15/12 01:52 AM Re: Atheist Billboard in Pennsylvania [Re: oracle71]
foobar456 Offline
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Registered: 05/19/07
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Loc: Somewhere
Touched a nerve, did he?

God could command his people to do decidedly strange things like cut off the tips of the penises, but he couldn't tell them to not own slaves? Many of the things in the bible went against what people normally did back then, and the Jews and later the Christians were pretty badly persecuted for it, as I recall. But this one thing is just too much to go against society on?
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#3718926 - 03/15/12 12:10 PM Re: Atheist Billboard in Pennsylvania [Re: oracle71]
Jack Sparrow Offline
Hardcore

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 2113
Loc: At Worlds End
smirk Ancient world, yes yes yes. That's the Bible, outdated, obsolete and might as well be classified as mythology.

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#3718977 - 03/15/12 01:11 PM Re: Atheist Billboard in Pennsylvania [Re: Jack Sparrow]
1oldminer Offline
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Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 7297
Loc: Stopping the Juubi's revival
Originally Posted By: Jack Sparrow
smirk Ancient world, yes yes yes. That's the Bible, outdated, obsolete and might as well be classified as mythology.


Yet it speaks from the dust especially for our times. The prophets foretold the calamities that will come if we as a modern society completely turn our backs from God.

The family for example, the basic unit of society is being attacked as never before...children do not love and honor thier parents and parents shift thier responsibilities to guide thier children in a loving but firm way.They either neglect them or they over induldge them.

Secularists and atheists tell us we don't need God to guide us for anything we are our own dieties...least of all how to raise kids so we place faith in child psychologists, school councillors and big goverment that surely know better than the parents..what is ailing Suzy or why Johnny can't read..and one wonders why there are so many kids with bahavioral problems these days.

It is quite clear to me that that our society is slowly crumbling because we have lowered our moral standards..crime, violence, corruption, cheating, dishonesty and sexual perversion of all types and so much more are all on the rise..because society has chosen to turn its back on God.

And like the nations of the ancient world which rose and fell under the weight of its own decay so shall the modern nations of our day will fall if we do not learn from history.
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To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary.
To one without faith, no explanation is possible". ~Thomas Aquinas


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#3718998 - 03/15/12 01:45 PM Re: Atheist Billboard in Pennsylvania [Re: 1oldminer]
Kthulhu Offline
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Registered: 05/04/04
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Loc: R'lyeh
Ah, you gotta love the kind of tolerant God that will apparently plague us with calamities if we fail to beat our slaves and stone women who have been raped to death.

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#3719024 - 03/15/12 02:17 PM Re: Atheist Billboard in Pennsylvania [Re: Kthulhu]
1oldminer Offline
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Registered: 08/01/05
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Loc: Stopping the Juubi's revival
Originally Posted By: Kthulhu
Ah, you gotta love the kind of tolerant God that will apparently plague us with calamities if we fail to beat our slaves and stone women who have been raped to death.


And I'm sure people under atheist countries were living in a perfect utopian society. rolleyes

Did you even bother to read what oracle said about slavery in the ancient world? Many people sold themselves into slavery because there was no such thing as a social safety net to turn to it..all too often it was that or starve to death.

Kthulhu show me an example throughout human history... any officially atheist society that treated its citizens well.

And no... Sweden and other largely secular countries cannot be counted as they are not officially atheist.
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To one without faith, no explanation is possible". ~Thomas Aquinas


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#3719381 - 03/15/12 07:39 PM Re: Atheist Billboard in Pennsylvania [Re: 1oldminer]
MaudlinElephant Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 1330

What Christian countries treat their citizens well? And no, the US, Britain and the West don't count because they're not officially Christian.

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#3719412 - 03/15/12 08:06 PM Re: Atheist Billboard in Pennsylvania [Re: MaudlinElephant]
Crux Australis Offline
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Registered: 09/22/05
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There are no truly Christian countries in the world now.
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#3719485 - 03/15/12 08:56 PM Re: Atheist Billboard in Pennsylvania [Re: Crux Australis]
1oldminer Offline
Permanent Resident

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 7297
Loc: Stopping the Juubi's revival
Originally Posted By: Crux Australis
There are no truly Christian countries in the world now.


Probably true because very few truly practice the faith.
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To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary.
To one without faith, no explanation is possible". ~Thomas Aquinas


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