#3760372 - 04/12/1205:44 PMRe: Atheist Billboard in Pennsylvania
[Re: Feral]
The Devils Left Hand
Son of the Morning
Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 18702
Loc: Αἵδης...
Originally Posted By: Feral
Originally Posted By: The Devils Left Hand
It's really all about certainty. If someone says they KNOW there isn't a god or they KNOW there IS a god, they're both gnostics.
Well put. There are quite a few Scientifics out there that are more than happy to say, "If you can't prove it, it doesn't exist."
But we have to be careful there, because the door swings both ways.
Because you can't prove something also doesn't mean that it does exist.
And that's what defines our agnostics. Those that are unsure, but choose to believe in a god, are agnostic theists. Those that are unsure but choose not to believe in a god are agnostic atheists.
Feral
Taoiseach den fhoirm baineann
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 2121
Loc: Wandering, but not lost
Originally Posted By: The Devils Left Hand
Originally Posted By: Feral
Originally Posted By: The Devils Left Hand
It's really all about certainty. If someone says they KNOW there isn't a god or they KNOW there IS a god, they're both gnostics.
Well put. There are quite a few Scientifics out there that are more than happy to say, "If you can't prove it, it doesn't exist."
But we have to be careful there, because the door swings both ways.
Because you can't prove something also doesn't mean that it does exist.
And that's what defines our agnostics. Those that are unsure, but choose to believe in a god, are agnostic theists. Those that are unsure but choose not to believe in a god are agnostic atheists.
Exactly. Fallacy abounds.
"You’ll find all the answers eventually, with enough time and study, or the right sort of tools. That’s what you believe, isn’t it?" "Yes, that’s what I have always believed." "And even when your belief fails, right before your eyes, you still have full confidence in it. Now there’s a leap of faith."
Registered: 06/04/07
Posts: 986
Loc: MW, Local Group, Universe
Originally Posted By: 1oldminer
Originally Posted By: Feral
Originally Posted By: 1oldminer
Quote:
You still haven't defined "Atheist".
Look it up..google is your friend.
I know Google's definition; I want yours. It's important to the context of the conversation, and apparently, it is an abstract term.
My take?
An atheist is one who believes there is no god or denies the existence of diety or dieties.
Therefore by that definition I define atheism as a religion..the faith/belief that there is no god.
Because what they claim as fact is no more provable than what I can prove to them that God does exist.
If you're thinking of my posts and me when you say this (I get a funny feeling you are), I haven't said there is no god. I have said there is no proof of any kind of godly being, existing now or at any time. Or anything approaching proof.
_________________________
An Eagle was soaring through the air when suddenly it heard the whizz of an Arrow, and felt itself wounded to death. Slowly it fluttered down to the earth, with its life-blood pouring out of it. Looking down upon the Arrow with which it had been pierced, it found that the shaft of the Arrow had been feathered with one of its own plumes. "Alas!" it cried, as it died,
"We often give our enemies the means for our own destruction."
Registered: 06/04/07
Posts: 986
Loc: MW, Local Group, Universe
Originally Posted By: 1oldminer
Originally Posted By: lu61f3r
Originally Posted By: dblboggie
Rest assured, your posts are the farthest things from my mind when I am making a post.
I try not to feed the trolls.
Was it a response to anyone's post?
And the above statement contradicts this one:
Originally Posted By: lu61f3r
At this point you appear to be responding to me, but that does not contradict what I said.
Originally Posted By: dblboggie
Finally! You've noticed! Congratulations.
But feel free to correct me, if you meant something else.
This is the same response you give every time lu... you always answer by giving non-responses or you start quibbling jiberishly over exact meaning of certain words... which have nothing to do with the question posed to you.
Originally Posted By: lu61f3r
Again, it's a response to one of [his] posts
_________________________
An Eagle was soaring through the air when suddenly it heard the whizz of an Arrow, and felt itself wounded to death. Slowly it fluttered down to the earth, with its life-blood pouring out of it. Looking down upon the Arrow with which it had been pierced, it found that the shaft of the Arrow had been feathered with one of its own plumes. "Alas!" it cried, as it died,
"We often give our enemies the means for our own destruction."
Registered: 06/04/07
Posts: 986
Loc: MW, Local Group, Universe
Originally Posted By: 1oldminer
Originally Posted By: Feral
Originally Posted By: 1oldminer
Quote:
You still haven't defined "Atheist".
Look it up..google is your friend.
I know Google's definition; I want yours. It's important to the context of the conversation, and apparently, it is an abstract term.
My take?
An atheist is one who believes there is no god or denies the existence of diety or dieties.
Therefore by that definition I define atheism as a religion..the faith/belief that there is no god.
Because what they claim as fact is no more provable than what I can prove to them that God does exist.
He would seem to mean, in the context of this:
Originally Posted By: 1oldminer
But it has also been proven that in atheist countries has also brought out the worst in humanity.
Originally Posted By: Feral
Now it sounds like you are equating atheism with non-religious...and when you say atheist country, do you mean one without a state religion? And do you mean without organized religion humanity would be worse off? Please choose your words carefully, or if there is something that might be misconstrued, clarify them. I am hesitant to respond to generalities. I'm not attacking you or 'nitpicking', I genuinely want to hear your view.
_________________________
An Eagle was soaring through the air when suddenly it heard the whizz of an Arrow, and felt itself wounded to death. Slowly it fluttered down to the earth, with its life-blood pouring out of it. Looking down upon the Arrow with which it had been pierced, it found that the shaft of the Arrow had been feathered with one of its own plumes. "Alas!" it cried, as it died,
"We often give our enemies the means for our own destruction."
It's really all about certainty. If someone says they KNOW there isn't a god or they KNOW there IS a god, they're both gnostics.
Well put. There are quite a few Scientifics out there that are more than happy to say, "If you can't prove it, it doesn't exist."
But we have to be careful there, because the door swings both ways.
Because you can't prove something also doesn't mean that it does exist.
And that's what defines our agnostics. Those that are unsure, but choose to believe in a god, are agnostic theists. Those that are unsure but choose not to believe in a god are agnostic atheists.
I have to say thet you've nailed it here DLH. I have always professed that I am an agnostic as oppossed to an atheist because I saw atheists as being arrogant in their professed certainty in something that just cannot be proved.
B) Atheists (I'm assuming you are referring to what DLH is calling agnostic atheists) are arrogant because they claim to know something doesn't exist because there is no proof, but people who claim to know that God exists without proof are necessary for society to not collapse from corruption?
B) Atheists (I'm assuming you are referring to what DLH is calling agnostic atheists) are arrogant because they claim to know something doesn't exist because there is no proof, but people who claim to know that God exists without proof are necessary for society to not collapse from corruption
Incorrect. It is gnostic atheists that claim a knowledge they cannot possibly possess. Just as it is gnostic theists who claim a knowledge they cannot possibly possess.
As for the bit in red, even the most devoted humanists of the renaissance understood the importance of the Church to the mantainance of civil society.
In fact, this knowledge finds expression by some the greatest humanist/agnostic atheist thinkers mankind has ever produced throughout our history.
Why do always seem so surprised by this?
This has been the story of civilization since there have been civilizations.
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