Superboy is kind of disappointing so far.

For ass-kicking action, check out OMAC. OMAC is now like DC's version of the Hulk.

I read the first couple arcs of X-Force, and it was quite good.

The current story arc for Uncanny X-Force is so cool! I love the Age of Apocalypse, so anything with that is a win for me!

I'll check out OMAC

read the first two aquaman.

Like it a lot. Think i'll keep reading it.

I never could get into the Age of Apocalypse. I could never buy into the conceit that without Xavier the ENTIRE MARVEL UNIVERSE doesn't exist. No X-Men? Fine. I can take that. I can buy that without the X-Men, there is no X-Factor, and thus no one to face Apocalypse for the first time and he conquers the world. Easy to buy that.

But the thought that because Xavier died, it prevented the Fantastic Four from gaining their powers, the Avengers forming, Peter Parker becoming Spider-Man, and Captain America being found...I can't buy that at all. So I can't really enjoy that world. I don't buy that as he had nothing to do with any of those events.

Xavier is tied into the Illuminati which tied FF and Iron man, and others, plus with Apocalypse being able to rule the world, forming his Horsemen unopposed, who is there to stop him?

DC does the same thing, but this is why there ALTERNATE realities, did you ask why Batman and Wonder Woman were Russia during Superman Red Son too?

Well, they explain Wonder Woman, because of the Amazonian alliance with with Russia as a result of Superman's presence, but Batman is an odd idea that Millar just included to make himself happy. And thanks for making this into a Marvel Vs. DC thing when it wasn't supposed to be. Never brought up DC in this discussion as they didn't have anything to do with my reasoning for not being able to get into the AOA, which is a logic reason that's a central problem for me.

And the Illuminati, in addition to being a retcon that was applied post AOA, doesn't explain what Xavier had to do with the FF getting their powers, the Avengers forming and finding Cap, Peter Parker becoming Spider-Man, etc. Because he had nothing to do with any of those events. His death does not stop any of those events, or at least they shouldn't, because he had nothing to do with any of it. Now, if you want to tell me that without Xavier, Apocalypse take over the world and crushes everyone beneath him save for a few heroes and the Magneto-led X-Men, I'm for it. No Xavier means no original team of X-Men which means no X-Factor which means that team is not in place to be the first to confront Apocalypse. I can follow that line of thinking.

I can't follow that because Xavier is dead, Cap is still floating in the ice, there are no Avengers(Yet there's still a Hulk and Iron Man...), there is no Fantastic Four, Peter Parker never became Spider-Man in addition to several other things. Xavier is important, but he's not responsible for all of that. That gives him too much weight in that universe.

That's not to say that AOA didn't give us anything good. We have X-Man because of it. But I don't buy the story because it overplays Xavier's importance to every single character in Marvel.

From what I hear, the recent "Age of X" thing is slightly better in the logic regard, as other heroes still do exist. I might flip through the trade.

Well since your the "DC Guy" I brought up as an example. I made it one alternate reality against another, not company vs. company.

Xavier not being around to stop Apocalypse would cause major shit to happen in my opinion, just like your opinion is the exact opposite. Apocalypse's biggest foes were the X Teams and without them in place, he could have run through many forces and taken them out. And again it takes place in a completely different reality, or Earth, so many things are different and altered.

I don't argue that Xavier not being there would let Apocalypse run free. I stated that above.




My problem with the AOA has always been that it paints Xavier as being the single most important person in the Marvel universe. The idea that somehow, because he was killed, there is no Fantastic Four, Avengers, Spider-Man, etc. is ludicrous. I don't buy it, and that hurts the story for me. Simply put, it's dumb. Xavier had no impact on any of those events. And the aforementioned Illimunati was only retconned into existence after the Kree-Skrull War, which is long after the Avengers were formed, Cap was found, the FF got their powers and Peter got bitten by the spider.

I can easily take, as I said, that without Xavier, Apocalypse conquers because the X-Teams are not there. However, I can not accept the idea that no Xavier means:

No Spider-Man, no Fantastic Four, no Avengers, or any of the other non mutant heroes or teams he had nothing to do with. That is not a conceit I can take. Xavier had nothing to do with any of those events. That's why I want to look at Age of X, because it looks to not have that problem, as in the non-mutants are around.

But with AOA being an alternate world, who's to say what that Earth's Xavier was working on or working with right?