If I were to have a son, that would meant that I would have created him (albeit with some help). But if I randomly decide to kill that son, it's still considered murder.
O' Golly Gosh......... you is trying to make things very complecated.
was Jesus life and death preordained ?????????????????????????
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David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
I wasn't even talking about Jesus. I'm talking about the fact that some poeple here have said that since god created humanity, he's well within his rights morally to destroy them with no more of a reason than "because I said so".
But you also bring up another point of hypocrisy that some Christians display. Some of them hate Jews, and label them as "Christ-killers"...despite the fact that the entire purpose for Jesus to come to Earth was for him to die.
Ultimately He can do whatever He so pleases to all humankind, because He created it....
He doesn't need a pitiful human being's permission to kill whoever He deems just to do so.
And that's pretty much the problem, isn't it? It appears that God's morality is incomprehensible at best, and unworthy of us human beings at worst.
Surely the Bible - and religions - can come up with a better reason for doing things than "because I said so."
Many people do not live their lives according to God's values (including the religious) as detailed in holy books for instance. We use laws produced by governments, and use personal/family/cultural values but also the ones characteristic of our jobs. A soldier is taught to value listening to the captain above all. A salesman is taught to value making a sale above all. Lawyers want to win cases. Moral concerns are not high up in many professions. Often we end up having to balance personal needs, job's demands, rules and laws, and values which are often confused, coming to us from many places with no formula to help us decide on them.
This is not to say that God's morality is perfectly comprehensible or leads to less suffering. But deciding on values is extremely difficult because you end up needing to rely on other values and it never ends. You may rely on your own values but you will have as difficult a time to try to justify your values and how you rank them.
There are millions of human beings that do comprehend God's elevated morality, thanks to their diligent study and their humility.
Theologians apparently used to have heated debates over the number of angels that could dance on the head of a pin, while pragmatists like Charlemagne went out and cobbled together Western civilization.
It might not hurt to have a practical God, if He's going to put fingers into the human pie, and it would have hurt the innocent Egyptian first-born a lot less too.
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That's precisely why theology is the wrong way to go. Jesus condemned the theologians of his day, the scribes and pharisees. They demanded the minute details of the Law to be upheld but they completely missed the most important points.
Theologians likewise think too highly of themselves, but they forget a true Christian must be humble and meek, not arrogant or proud. As Paul wrote, 'Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up'.
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Whether or not the plagues of Egypt were the scale they were described in the Bible or not Moses is still a historical figure. Both Jesus and Paul and other New Testament writers mention him.
Jesus was 1500 years after these events and we are 3500 years after.
Does 2000 years make a difference?
What a ridulous post. Infact, I shouldn't even bother replying but I will.
There is no proof that Moses existed outside of Jewish mythology. The fact that Jesus and Paul mentioned him is not evidence as they were not contempories and they were certainly Jewish and thus would be familiar with their myths of Moses.
Infact, Jesus more than likely didn't actually exist (though his attribuyes probably belonged to many prophets that cropped up in the first century) and thus his ''knowledge'' of Moses isn't important. Fictional characters in story books usually know of other fictional characters within the same book.
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"Graves open wide and Helheim's doors too. The island's face is one searing fire; all without is a fear to see: Go, while there's time: yield back to your ship."
Because we have written contemporary sources and in some cases sources written by themselves, maybe? You fail at logic, I am afraid.
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There is no proof that Adam and Eve or Noah or Abraham or Moses or even some New Testament figures ever existed.
They didn'[t exists, with the possible exception of Abraham. If anyone claims that Adam and Eve exists I would lose most of teh respect I have for them. It is a truly ridiculous claim.
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"Graves open wide and Helheim's doors too. The island's face is one searing fire; all without is a fear to see: Go, while there's time: yield back to your ship."
Would you apply the same analogy for Homer, Cademon, or King Arthur? Many believe these people actually existed but there's no actual proof of thier existance and yet they made an impact in lot of ways in our literiture.
I know of no decent scholar who believes that King Arthur existed! Caedmon, an early English monk, on the other hand, is a writer of a prayer and thus we have some evidence of him.
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"Graves open wide and Helheim's doors too. The island's face is one searing fire; all without is a fear to see: Go, while there's time: yield back to your ship."
Satan, that old serpent has been responsible for the misery of humans since the world began.
He is the father of all lies and deceit and seeks the misery of mankind for he wishes us to be as miserable as he is.
You know, as much power as you (and many others like you) assign to Satan, I'm not really sure if your brand of Christianity qualifies as monotheistic anymore.
In 1oldminer's defence, he atleats isn't a fire-and-brimstone fundie. In Mormonism, humans all go to what we would call heaven (apart from maybe corrupt Mormons who MAY go to the Outer-Darkness), but some are a ''hell'' of sorts. So even people like Hitler go to a nice place when they die.
I think Mormonism is absurdist but atleast it isn't what I would call ''evil' (e.g. Fundamentalism).
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"Graves open wide and Helheim's doors too. The island's face is one searing fire; all without is a fear to see: Go, while there's time: yield back to your ship."
I'm not sure you understood what I said. I realize that you are ascribing enormous amounts of power to Satan. In fact, I would say that you are arguing for so much power for Satan that your belief system is no longer monotheistic...it is composed of two gods...Yahweh, the good of "good"; and Satan, the god of evil.
Ironically something like Zoroastrianism, one of the religions I have the highest respect for. They have Ahura Mazda, a good being (and yes, he is generally good unlike YHWH) and Angra Mainyu, an evil entity which is, more or less, of equal power. Angra Mainyu also had the other proto-Devil Aži Dahāka under his wing.
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Yahweh, the Father...Lawful Evil Jesus, the Son...Lawful Good The Holy Spirit...Neutral Satan...Chaotic Evil
Great stuff!
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"Graves open wide and Helheim's doors too. The island's face is one searing fire; all without is a fear to see: Go, while there's time: yield back to your ship."
Bye for now 
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