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#2330778 - 11/23/09 11:44 PM Re: Why do people blame god for what we do to each other? [Re: Oriental Knight]
TJChurch Offline
Familiar Face

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 418
Loc: NE OH USA
Originally Posted By: Juicy_Juicy
I don't follow the logic in that line of reasoning. There are boundaries around our sense of self. We are not completely one with God.


Here's a thought: Understand something before you comment on it. Did I say we were one with God? No.

Put it this way... If there's a car accident, do you blame someone who's in a different state? No; You're much more likely to blame 1 of the drivers involved. However, while that makes perfect sense to some, it's possible that the driver who is seen by many to be at fault will perhaps not want to take the blame, & may instead blame God.

But even if they take the blame, they were created by God, so they can accept the blame & blame God.

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#2330883 - 11/24/09 12:55 AM Re: Why do people blame god for what we do to each other? [Re: TJChurch]
Oriental Knight Offline
Mythical Figure

Registered: 04/30/09
Posts: 64095
Originally Posted By: TJChurch
Originally Posted By: Juicy_Juicy
I don't follow the logic in that line of reasoning. There are boundaries around our sense of self. We are not completely one with God.


Here's a thought: Understand something before you comment on it. Did I say we were one with God? No.

Put it this way... If there's a car accident, do you blame someone who's in a different state? No; You're much more likely to blame 1 of the drivers involved. However, while that makes perfect sense to some, it's possible that the driver who is seen by many to be at fault will perhaps not want to take the blame, & may instead blame God.

But even if they take the blame, they were created by God, so they can accept the blame & blame God.


You're talking about proximate vs ultimate cause, is that it?

And you're taking it all the way to God.

Like if I hit you, it could be my fault, or my parents for giving birth to me, etc etc, and eventually God.


Edited by Juicy_Juicy (11/24/09 12:57 AM)
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p.s. I don't make banners like I used to(don't have photoshop now), so sorry about turning down requests.

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#2330892 - 11/24/09 01:01 AM Re: Why do people blame god for what we do to each other? [Re: Oriental Knight]
TJChurch Offline
Familiar Face

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 418
Loc: NE OH USA
Originally Posted By: Juicy_Juicy


You're talking about proximate vs ultimate cause, is that it?

And you're taking it all the way to God.

Like if I hit you, it could be my fault, or my parents for giving birth to me, etc etc, and eventually God.


Don't assume what I'm talking about after you say you don't understand what I'm talking about.

Oh, & what I was describing doesn't include the parents at all, b/c it works with the idea that God created you, which he would've done even if your parents didn't exist. (Some couples are created that may never have children.)

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#2330906 - 11/24/09 01:07 AM Re: Why do people blame god for what we do to each other? [Re: TJChurch]
loserchild16 Offline
Hot Prospect

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 93
it seems as tho only about 3 people understand what im trying to say..... to make it easier lets use this example, lets say half of the millions of people who use the internet all of a sudden decided to blame the creators of the internet for child porn,spam,hacking,porn,pop up ads,etc. is it really the creators fault or is it the people who misuses the internet.

in the same sense is with people blaming god, for example homosexuals some of them blame god because there excepted almost by no one and are outcast by many , couples whose child is abducted and either killed or raped some of them blame god for it, things like this is what i can't understand why they blame god and not the way society is and the way we as people have fallen from grace

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#2330931 - 11/24/09 01:20 AM Re: Why do people blame god for what we do to each other? [Re: TJChurch]
Oriental Knight Offline
Mythical Figure

Registered: 04/30/09
Posts: 64095
Originally Posted By: TJChurch
Originally Posted By: Juicy_Juicy


You're talking about proximate vs ultimate cause, is that it?

And you're taking it all the way to God.

Like if I hit you, it could be my fault, or my parents for giving birth to me, etc etc, and eventually God.


Don't assume what I'm talking about after you say you don't understand what I'm talking about.

Oh, & what I was describing doesn't include the parents at all, b/c it works with the idea that God created you, which he would've done even if your parents didn't exist. (Some couples are created that may never have children.)


Stop saying I shouldn't assume things! I posed it as a question, didn't I?
_________________________


p.s. I don't make banners like I used to(don't have photoshop now), so sorry about turning down requests.

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#2330935 - 11/24/09 01:21 AM Re: Why do people blame god for what we do to each other? [Re: loserchild16]
TJChurch Offline
Familiar Face

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 418
Loc: NE OH USA
Originally Posted By: loserchild16
in the same sense is with people blaming god, for example homosexuals some of them blame god because there excepted almost by no one and are outcast by many , couples whose child is abducted and either killed or raped some of them blame god for it, things like this is what i can't understand why they blame god and not the way society is and the way we as people have fallen from grace


Yeah, but in both cases (homosexuals & the children), God can still be blamed, I think... Because you can't just believe God creates you & says, "OK; Done." He creates you, & then also has some control over how you act.

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#2330941 - 11/24/09 01:25 AM Re: Why do people blame god for what we do to each other? [Re: loserchild16]
Oriental Knight Offline
Mythical Figure

Registered: 04/30/09
Posts: 64095
Originally Posted By: loserchild16
it seems as tho only about 3 people understand what im trying to say..... to make it easier lets use this example, lets say half of the millions of people who use the internet all of a sudden decided to blame the creators of the internet for child porn,spam,hacking,porn,pop up ads,etc. is it really the creators fault or is it the people who misuses the internet.

in the same sense is with people blaming god, for example homosexuals some of them blame god because there excepted almost by no one and are outcast by many , couples whose child is abducted and either killed or raped some of them blame god for it, things like this is what i can't understand why they blame god and not the way society is and the way we as people have fallen from grace


I don't know.

I figure some people do it when they are very frustrated and feel powerless. Like when you trying a hundred different ways to fix things but still doesn't work.

The thing is we can't eliminate crime and hatred anymore than we can cleanse ourselves of negative emotions. They are part of us. We were created this way. We are not angels. With free will comes pain and suffering, good but also bad choices. We try to master our emotions and try to do the right things, but at times (and this is speculation based on people I know who blame God), we feel totally frustrated, like we've hit a wall.

If I use your internet example, the internet has certain design flaws (such as the anonymity factor) and we might come up against them again and again. Some things we can fix, others we can't.
_________________________


p.s. I don't make banners like I used to(don't have photoshop now), so sorry about turning down requests.

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#2330954 - 11/24/09 01:32 AM Re: Why do people blame god for what we do to each other? [Re: Oriental Knight]
TJChurch Offline
Familiar Face

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 418
Loc: NE OH USA
Originally Posted By: Juicy_Juicy
The thing is we can't eliminate crime and hatred anymore than we can cleanse ourselves of negative emotions. They are part of us. We were created this way. We are not angels. With free will comes pain and suffering, good but also bad choices. We try to master our emotions and try to do the right things, but at times (and this is speculation based on people I know who blame God), we feel totally frustrated, like we've hit a wall.


Agreed; Those are part of us, but (as you say) that means we were created that way. So instead of blaming ourselves for anything that is within us, why not blame the God that created us? Also, when you "hit a wall", you can simply blame God for creating that literal/figurative wall.

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#2332184 - 11/24/09 07:55 PM Re: Why do people blame god for what we do to each other? [Re: TJChurch]
WesMordine Offline
Permanent Resident

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 9706
Loc: In a country with no army =)
The Bible (assuming still that we're talking about the God of the bible) doesn't teach that we were created this way, with our flaws.

"The Rock, his work is perfect; for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and right is he.
They have dealt corruptly with him, they are no longer his children because of their blemish; they are a perverse and crooked generation."
-Deuteronomy 32: 4, 5 Revised Standard Version

Much to the opposite, it shows that Adam and Eve, as well as many spirit creatures, first among them an angel who became known as Satan, desired things they were not meant to possess.

They let their desire grow to a point where they couldn't hold back, and they sinned against God. Sin is that blemish. So, it would be better to heed the Scriptural advice found in James than to keep blaming the wrong person.

Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one;
but each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin; and sin when it is full-grown brings forth death.
-James 1: 13 to 15 Revised Standard Version



Edited by WesMordine (11/24/09 08:03 PM)
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#2332475 - 11/24/09 11:51 PM Re: Why do people blame god for what we do to each other? [Re: WesMordine]
TJChurch Offline
Familiar Face

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 418
Loc: NE OH USA
Originally Posted By: WesMordine
The Bible (assuming still that we're talking about the God of the bible)


That kills me. b/c I have no clue what other God we could be referring to. Ironically, the service I was in this weekend said that the Quarn (sp.?) is wrong b/c it says something different than the Bible, but I believe personally that believing in some God is better than none at all. Anyway,...

The rest of that, IMO, is no different than Sarah Palin attacking people on her staff/the Republicans in her book. Now that the campaign & election is over, she can say any choice that didn't turn-out well wasn't her choice/doing.

Likewise, it would only make sense for God's book to tell us to follow him, etc., but it makes sense that we'd be less likely to follow him if we thought he made/was responsible for others making mistakes.

That doesn't mean that he didn't make them, or cause others to make them.

(I hope that makes sense; If not, please let me know, & I can try to explain it better.)

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