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#2042107 - 07/03/09 10:12 PM Re: I'm confused [Re: 1oldminer]
Cutlass Offline
Mythical Figure

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 58089
Loc: U.S. of A.
Originally Posted By: 1oldminer
Originally Posted By: Cutlass
Originally Posted By: matt75
Yep! The infallible word of god is incredibly subjective at times isn't it? whistle


The Bible is not the word of god though. Christian theology rejects that.


Millions of christians would disgree with that statement Cut.


But only the ignorant ones. No theologians. No one that's educated on the matter.
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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

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#2042130 - 07/03/09 10:24 PM Re: I'm confused [Re: Cutlass]
WesMordine Offline
The Witness

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 7450
Loc: In a country with no army =)
No, not only the ignorant ones.

Theologians are to spiritual things as psychologists are to love.

The coldness of their approach to the subject negates the effect of it.
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#2042132 - 07/03/09 10:25 PM Re: I'm confused [Re: WesMordine]
1oldminer Offline
Hardcore

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 3521
Loc: The Hidden Leaf Village
Originally Posted By: WesMordine
And yet they'd disagree among themselves about their own understanding of it.

The best thing someone can do if he or she wants to know about the Bible's nature is to study it personally, without bringing with him/her any preconceived ideas.

If you start reading it looking for contradictions, you will find "contradictions". If you approach it thinking it's subjective, you'll find "subjectivity".

Just give it a read. An honest, humble, openhearted read.



And if you need help understanding it, and you really want to, someone will offer you help.


Indeed Wes, even amongst us fellow christians at times will disagee as to how to understand and intepret the bible.

I have seen that happen among members even in my own church and it can only turn away the spirit from those who are seeking it, if we allow our pride to intercede with the Spirit.
This what Jesus called the spirit of contention.

Like you said Wes...to truly get a deep personal understanding and connection with God, you must have a open heart,mind and spirit.


Edited by 1oldminer (07/03/09 10:27 PM)

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#2042410 - 07/04/09 03:24 AM Re: I'm confused [Re: 1oldminer]
bubblebliss Offline
Hardcore

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 2453
Loc: Lexington, KY
And then there are those who twist the Bible's words to justify the wrong they are doing.

My Girlfriends dad spends no time with his family. He goes to work at 10 in the morning and doesn't come back till 1-2 in the morning.
He doesn't talk to his wife and they have no slept in the same room for years now.
He's as cheap as one can get. No heat, no air conditioning (only in extreme weather), no computer, no cable TV, no trash pick-up, etc.
His children get no money from him and his wife is not allowed to buy them presents because "he can't afford it".
(he has a PhD in Biomedical Engineering, btw and makes plenty of money).
He spends his money on himself, taking all kinds of classes (diving, karate, etc.) and going on all kinds of vacations.

Yet he goes to church every Sunday, he's Protestant, btw, talks bad about Catholics (which is what I am) and then when he comes home from church he yells at his wife and children for spending too much money or leaving a light on or something.

I might also mention that he drives a 300E Mercedes AMG that goes for about $60-70,000.
His wife drives an Acura and his daughter didn't get a car till she was 18. And she was only allowed to drive it to work and school.

SOMEHOW he finds justification for all this in the Bible, and he takes it so far that he blames his failed marriage on his family, even though he's the one that's constantly gone out of the house.

Those kinda people are just a mystery to me.
I wonder what god will tell them when they walk to the gates of heaven all confident and proud.
_________________________
"It is now time that something was done. But the man who has the courage to do something must do it in the knowledge that he will go down in German history as a traitor. If he does not do it, however, he will be a traitor to his own conscience."
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"An appeal to fear never finds an echo in German hearts."
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#2042424 - 07/04/09 03:46 AM Re: I'm confused [Re: bubblebliss]
DeepAtSea Offline
Beelzebub

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 14031
Loc: Beyond The Rubicon
Originally Posted By: bubblebliss
And then there are those who twist the Bible's words to justify the wrong they are doing.

My Girlfriends dad spends no time with his family. He goes to work at 10 in the morning and doesn't come back till 1-2 in the morning.
He doesn't talk to his wife and they have no slept in the same room for years now.
He's as cheap as one can get. No heat, no air conditioning (only in extreme weather), no computer, no cable TV, no trash pick-up, etc.
His children get no money from him and his wife is not allowed to buy them presents because "he can't afford it".
(he has a PhD in Biomedical Engineering, btw and makes plenty of money).
He spends his money on himself, taking all kinds of classes (diving, karate, etc.) and going on all kinds of vacations.

Yet he goes to church every Sunday, he's Protestant, btw, talks bad about Catholics (which is what I am) and then when he comes home from church he yells at his wife and children for spending too much money or leaving a light on or something.

I might also mention that he drives a 300E Mercedes AMG that goes for about $60-70,000.
His wife drives an Acura and his daughter didn't get a car till she was 18. And she was only allowed to drive it to work and school.

SOMEHOW he finds justification for all this in the Bible, and he takes it so far that he blames his failed marriage on his family, even though he's the one that's constantly gone out of the house.

Those kinda people are just a mystery to me.
I wonder what god will tell them when they walk to the gates of heaven all confident and proud.



is it for real????? huh i'm very sorry for her and her family this guys is kookoo
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#2042447 - 07/04/09 04:18 AM Re: I'm confused [Re: bubblebliss]
JT Offline
Mythical Figure

Registered: 08/09/04
Posts: 37874
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: bubblebliss
And then there are those who twist the Bible's words to justify the wrong they are doing.


They are called Christians. That's why there are so many divisions of Christianity. Some of them twist the Bible the way they want and disregard catholic beliefs to their own benefits. One prime example is how many Christian ministers can get married and have children, while Catholic priests are supposed to remain abstinent the rest of their lives. Or how some Christian churches practically beg for your money while many of the ministers are living rather wealthy. I never recall seeing any high roller Catholic priest and blasting his words through advertised 30 minute commercials.

And by the way, isn't God supposed to be a forgiving entity? If so then we probably will all go to heaven. No one is perfect. We have all sinned somehow and many. Whether it is small or big. God won't forgive you if you commit murder, but will if you dont remember the Sabbath day or covet a wife? Or because you believe in Jesus, those will go away? WE might all go to heaven, but one thing is for sure...we will all either rot in a coffin or get burned to ashes.
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#2042674 - 07/04/09 10:28 AM Re: I'm confused [Re: bubblebliss]
EE_EE Offline
Hardcore

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3574
Loc: On the way to heaven
Quote:
Ephesians 5:25-33 (King James Version)

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

33Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
_________________________
I like my ladies two dimensional.

Some of my favs:

Melissa Joan Hart
Beverley Mitchell
Jessica Biel
Elisha Cuthbert
Laura Prepon
Leah Remini
Mackenzie Rosman
Vanessa Lengies
Mandy Moore

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#2042687 - 07/04/09 10:47 AM Re: I'm confused [Re: JT]
EE_EE Offline
Hardcore

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3574
Loc: On the way to heaven
Originally Posted By: JT
And by the way, isn't God supposed to be a forgiving entity? If so then we probably will all go to heaven. No one is perfect. We have all sinned somehow and many. Whether it is small or big. God won't forgive you if you commit murder, but will if you dont remember the Sabbath day or covet a wife? Or because you believe in Jesus, those will go away? WE might all go to heaven, but one thing is for sure...we will all either rot in a coffin or get burned to ashes.



God offers salvation to everyone who will receive it but in in order to receive it a person must believe in Jesus and repent from their sins.

Quote:
Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


Quote:
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


Quote:
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Quote:
Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


Quote:
Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Quote:
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


But only a few ever accept God's offer and are genuine in their faith.

Quote:
Matthew 7:13-14 (New International Version)

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it
_________________________
I like my ladies two dimensional.

Some of my favs:

Melissa Joan Hart
Beverley Mitchell
Jessica Biel
Elisha Cuthbert
Laura Prepon
Leah Remini
Mackenzie Rosman
Vanessa Lengies
Mandy Moore

------


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#2044580 - 07/05/09 03:06 PM Re: I'm confused [Re: WesMordine]
matt75 Offline
Hardcore

Registered: 11/07/05
Posts: 3821
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: WesMordine
No, not only the ignorant ones.

Theologians are to spiritual things as psychologists are to love.

The coldness of their approach to the subject negates the effect of it.

I regularly find educated and academic Theologians to be approachable, intelligent and worthy of prolonged conversation. They don't whine about victimisation at every penetrating question, they answer thoughtfully and don't preach. People like you could really learn a thing or two from academic theologians.

Why do you despise education so much?
_________________________
Science is questions that might never be answered, religion is answers that must never be questioned

Originally Posted By: 1oldminer
I can say the very same thing about Darwin making up stuff as well.

Niether you or I were around even in Darwin's time.

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#2044657 - 07/05/09 04:09 PM Re: I'm confused [Re: matt75]
WesMordine Offline
The Witness

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 7450
Loc: In a country with no army =)
That would be your interpretation of my words.

(And btw, Christians have to preach.)

I'm not really interested in starting yet another pointless defense of my wording. I was replying to the notion that "ignorant Christians" are the ones who accept the Bible as God's Word. That's it.
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