Quote: Bit late sorry but I'm not American, I just can't fathom why there is so much hatred toward the US and often by their own media and sections of their people.
Why is it "hate" to question or even to stand firmly against the policies of an acting government? On the contrary, it is wonderfully American to question those in power, and to fight back (peacefully, of course) whenever you feel that you should. As Thomas Jefferson said, dissent can be the highest form of patriotism. I believe that those who attempt to suppress political dissent are in fact the least American among us.
Quote: The Liberal media in this country will never be happy until there is only 1 party and 1 voice
I am curious, what country are you from? Is there no free press there? As for the United States, we have a free press, but it is coming increasingly under attack through media consolidation. Unfortunately, Bush has turned back the clock on legislation that helped prevent such consolidation (he tends to side with big business over the welfare of the people, which is one reason why he tends to draw a lot of criticism). Soon, I fear that we will not have a much better situation than "one voice"... internet media may be our saving grace in this regard, so long as that is not controlled, too.
#203601 - 01/29/0606:58 PMRe: A Bush Presidency Poll
[Re: OonGahDooHah]
greengunner
Banned
Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 1359
Loc: Walking in a Wenger wonderland...
I'm from Ireland but live in America and we have free press in Ireland thank you very much.You say that the media are only doing their job well why is it that you will never see anything derogatory about a Democratic politician in the American media. Take for example the Gary Condit case Dan Rather didn't mention it for 13 days for crying out loud because he said and I quote "its not newsworthy" plus any time his name was mentioned in the press there was a bif REP beside his name now most informed people would know that means representative but unfortunately many people believed it meant Republican and it was just another reason to hate the right. You can say whatever you like but the media in this country is incredibly biased and it doesn't take a doctorate to realise that
_________________________
If you make it idiot proof, someone will build a better idiot.
Quote: I'm from Ireland but live in America and we have free press in Ireland thank you very much.You say that the media are only doing their job well why is it that you will never see anything derogatory about a Democratic politician in the American media.
You clearly did not read my post... I never said anything about the "media just doing their job." Please, take your time and read posts before responding.
And as for the media not saying anything derogatory about a Democrat -- are you serious? The most popular news network in the U.S. is blatantly conservative. A large segment of their time is spent ripping Democrats.
Quote: Take for example the Gary Condit case Dan Rather didn't mention it for 13 days for crying out loud because he said and I quote "its not newsworthy" plus any time his name was mentioned in the press there was a bif REP beside his name now most informed people would know that means representative but unfortunately many people believed it meant Republican and it was just another reason to hate the right.
Wow, this is some weak evidence you have here. And for the record, the Gary Condit case was, in fact, not very newsworthy. Only subscribers of a sort of tabloid type of journalism would find this newsworthy. I bet you sat on the edge of your seat watching "journalism" on the Natalee Holloway situation in Aruba. That, too, is an example of tabloid journalism... A publication interested in tackling real issues would treat that case with nothing more than a passing glance.
Quote: You can say whatever you like but the media in this country is incredibly biased and it doesn't take a doctorate to realise that
Again, please re-read. I, in fact, said the opposite -- that our media was increasingly being compromised despite being a "free press". Read it twice if necessary... and by all means, feel free to use some punctuation in your replies (assuming you know how). It would go a long way to making people respect your thoughts if you didn't write like a second grader.
Hitler was democratically elected, was he? Perhaps you've never heard of the Beerhall Putsch, the attempted coup d'etat which landed Hitler in prison?
While I will grant you that Hitler and the NSDAP did win substantial amounts of seats in the legislature during the elections of 1931 and 1932, by no means or stretch of the imagination was he democratically elected by the people of Germany. In fact, his rise to power came by him using backroom deals and friends in key positions (Franz von Papen) to install him in a coalition government with the centrist DNVP.
President Paul von Hindenberg, facing growing criticism from oppostion parties, installed Hitler as a figurehead chancellor to appease von Papen. Much like someone else we all know......
Then of course, the Reichstag Fire where, if you'll remember, Nazi officials (or their agents which they turned a blind eye to) burned down the German parliament. This in turn was blamed on the communists and the Jews (see World Trade Center, mass hysteria, culture of fear within the United States) and moreover, lead to the sweeping and civil rights infringing laws of the Reichstag Fire Decree which eventually lead to Hitlers abolishment of the separation of powers in the German government allowing him to effectively become a dictator, with a clear path to exterminating millions of Jews (see Arabs and/or Muslims), enacting laws banning homosexuality (see Christian Conservative Right Wing Supreme Courts), and generally opening the door to the Nuremburg Laws, the Gestapo-SS complex, and Nazi armies marching across most of Europe and Eurasia (see PATRIOT Act, Wiretapping circumnavigating FISA courts, fixing intelligence to make case for war, Downing Street Minutes etc...)
But then again, its important to remember that none of that could ever happen again, because the Americans so soundly defeated the Nazi war machine single handedly......or was that with the help of the rest of the Allies (see Poland United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, France, Nepal, Tonga, South Africa, Canada, Denmark, Norway, Belgium Luxembourg, Netherlands, Greece, Yugoslavia, Soviet Union Panama, Philippines, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Haiti, Honduras, Nicaragua, China, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Mexico, Brazil, Ethiopia, Iraq, Bolivia, Iran, Italy, Colombia, Liberia, Romania, Bulgaria, San Marino, Albania, Hungary, Ecuador....funny, isnt it, how many of the countries on this list are now your enemies, or had some form of mass genocide perpetrated by a crazed general or dictator installed by the CIA and trained at the School of the Americas)
But of course, as any first year Political Science student could tell you, National Socialism was an offshoot of the fascist ideology. However, the Nazis refined the politics of fascism to better appeal to the growing hysteria of the German people by utilizing an effective barrage of propaganda based on the idea of national myths, those which tell the great and storied history of the people. Nationalism is one of the defining characterics of fascism, you know...people who blindly wave flags, supporting their leaders without question, going to war because they're told to, refusing to speak truth to power....of course when dissenters do speak out, the other effective mechanism of fascism is to label the dissenting party or person as unpatriotic, or a communist (see liberal, socialist, Muslim, insert jingoistic, feared political or religous ideology here)so as to create a society where no one speaks out for fear of being labelled.
Of course if that doesnt work, then just spy on them and throw them into jail without just cause.
I believe you have room at some place called Guantanamo.....
#203604 - 01/30/0608:10 PMRe: A Bush Presidency Poll
[Re: OonGahDooHah]
greengunner
Banned
Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 1359
Loc: Walking in a Wenger wonderland...
Quote:
Quote: I'm from Ireland but live in America and we have free press in Ireland thank you very much.You say that the media are only doing their job well why is it that you will never see anything derogatory about a Democratic politician in the American media.
You clearly did not read my post... I never said anything about the "media just doing their job." Please, take your time and read posts before responding.
And as for the media not saying anything derogatory about a Democrat -- are you serious? The most popular news network in the U.S. is blatantly conservative. A large segment of their time is spent ripping Democrats.
Quote: Take for example the Gary Condit case Dan Rather didn't mention it for 13 days for crying out loud because he said and I quote "its not newsworthy" plus any time his name was mentioned in the press there was a bif REP beside his name now most informed people would know that means representative but unfortunately many people believed it meant Republican and it was just another reason to hate the right.
Wow, this is some weak evidence you have here. And for the record, the Gary Condit case was, in fact, not very newsworthy. Only subscribers of a sort of tabloid type of journalism would find this newsworthy. I bet you sat on the edge of your seat watching "journalism" on the Natalee Holloway situation in Aruba. That, too, is an example of tabloid journalism... A publication interested in tackling real issues would treat that case with nothing more than a passing glance.
Quote: You can say whatever you like but the media in this country is incredibly biased and it doesn't take a doctorate to realise that
Again, please re-read. I, in fact, said the opposite -- that our media was increasingly being compromised despite being a "free press". Read it twice if necessary... and by all means, feel free to use some punctuation in your replies (assuming you know how). It would go a long way to making people respect your thoughts if you didn't write like a second grader.
The Gary Condit case wasn't newsworthy. A politician is cheating on his wife with an intern who then goes missing only for her body to turn up in a park they used to frequent Nope can't see anything newsworthy there. And please keep your condescending little comments to yourself I am perfectly able to use punctuation but don't bother. You keep saying read and re-read your comments but then come out and make an absurd comment like "the major media is conservative in this country" do you live in Facist Germany under Hitler or something? because thats quite possibly the most inane comment I've ever read.
Don't try and belittle me by trying to say I'm some tabloid reading Jerry Springer watching peon because my typically liberal snobbish friend thats how people of your ilk always try and describe conservatives. Its that type of elitism that sickens me, and I assure you its misplace I'm probably more well read than you could ever hope to achieve.
"Oooh I'm so much smarter than you and my writing is so eloquent" well maybe you spend so much time preaching you have mastered the art of bullshit writing that doesn't actually make sense but looks good. Please don't try and insult my inteligence because I may not be J D Salinger but I can out debate and out think people like you without even trying.
Edited by greengunner (01/30/0608:22 PM)
_________________________
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Quote: And please keep your condescending little comments to yourself I am perfectly able to use punctuation but don't bother.
I was only trying to help. It honestly was difficult to read your posts!
Quote: You keep saying read and re-read your comments but then come out and make an absurd comment like "the major media is conservative in this country" do you live in Facist Germany under Hitler or something? because thats quite possibly the most inane comment I've ever read.
Please, if you are going to quote me, make sure that you use my words, and not something that you are making up out of thin air. I didn't say "the major media" was conservative. I said the most popular news network in the country was conservative. Now I realize that by dubbing something "conservative", I have entered the realm of opinion... but I think it would be difficult to push the case that Fox News is liberal -- so at the very least, please don't pretend that conservative ideals are not out there in the public square from our major media outlets. Is this not a fair argument?
Quote: Don't try and belittle me by trying to say I'm some tabloid reading Jerry Springer watching peon because my typically liberal snobbish friend thats how people of your ilk always try and describe conservatives.
I'm sorry, but there are so many important stories that are underreported by our media, that I don't find it terribly important that they spend more time on one murder case. Sad though it may be, those things happen everyday... (and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there essentially zero evidence against Condit?)
Quote: Its that type of elitism that sickens me, and I assure you its misplace I'm probably more well read than you could ever hope to achieve.
Oh come on man, relax. We are having a tit for tat on a community message board. And if you don't want me to say things like "read more carefully," then simply respond to my post without putting words in my mouth!
Quote: "Oooh I'm so much smarter than you and my writing is so eloquent" well maybe you spend so much time preaching you have mastered the art of bullshit writing that doesn't actually make sense but looks good.
If you don't think I make sense, then simply explain why. I am honestly curious, and am always willing to be corrected and to learn from my mistakes.
Quote: Please don't try and insult my inteligence because I may not be J D Salinger but I can out debate and out think people like you without even trying.
You may well be able to out-think me (who am I to say otherwise?), but in my opinion you haven't out-debated much of anyone.
Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 9652
Loc: In a country with no army =)
Quote:
Quote:
Review a little history.
Hitler was democratically elected.
Hitler was democratically elected, was he? Perhaps you've never heard of the Beerhall Putsch, the attempted coup d'etat which landed Hitler in prison?
While I will grant you that Hitler and the NSDAP did win substantial amounts of seats in the legislature during the elections of 1931 and 1932, by no means or stretch of the imagination was he democratically elected by the people of Germany. In fact, his rise to power came by him using backroom deals and friends in key positions (Franz von Papen) to install him in a coalition government with the centrist DNVP.
President Paul von Hindenberg, facing growing criticism from oppostion parties, installed Hitler as a figurehead chancellor to appease von Papen. Much like someone else we all know......
Then of course, the Reichstag Fire where, if you'll remember, Nazi officials (or their agents which they turned a blind eye to) burned down the German parliament. This in turn was blamed on the communists and the Jews (see World Trade Center, mass hysteria, culture of fear within the United States) and moreover, lead to the sweeping and civil rights infringing laws of the Reichstag Fire Decree which eventually lead to Hitlers abolishment of the separation of powers in the German government allowing him to effectively become a dictator, with a clear path to exterminating millions of Jews (see Arabs and/or Muslims), enacting laws banning homosexuality (see Christian Conservative Right Wing Supreme Courts), and generally opening the door to the Nuremburg Laws, the Gestapo-SS complex, and Nazi armies marching across most of Europe and Eurasia (see PATRIOT Act, Wiretapping circumnavigating FISA courts, fixing intelligence to make case for war, Downing Street Minutes etc...)
But then again, its important to remember that none of that could ever happen again, because the Americans so soundly defeated the Nazi war machine single handedly......or was that with the help of the rest of the Allies (see Poland United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, France, Nepal, Tonga, South Africa, Canada, Denmark, Norway, Belgium Luxembourg, Netherlands, Greece, Yugoslavia, Soviet Union Panama, Philippines, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Haiti, Honduras, Nicaragua, China, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Mexico, Brazil, Ethiopia, Iraq, Bolivia, Iran, Italy, Colombia, Liberia, Romania, Bulgaria, San Marino, Albania, Hungary, Ecuador....funny, isnt it, how many of the countries on this list are now your enemies, or had some form of mass genocide perpetrated by a crazed general or dictator installed by the CIA and trained at the School of the Americas)
But of course, as any first year Political Science student could tell you, National Socialism was an offshoot of the fascist ideology. However, the Nazis refined the politics of fascism to better appeal to the growing hysteria of the German people by utilizing an effective barrage of propaganda based on the idea of national myths, those which tell the great and storied history of the people. Nationalism is one of the defining characterics of fascism, you know...people who blindly wave flags, supporting their leaders without question, going to war because they're told to, refusing to speak truth to power....of course when dissenters do speak out, the other effective mechanism of fascism is to label the dissenting party or person as unpatriotic, or a communist (see liberal, socialist, Muslim, insert jingoistic, feared political or religous ideology here)so as to create a society where no one speaks out for fear of being labelled.
Of course if that doesnt work, then just spy on them and throw them into jail without just cause.
I believe you have room at some place called Guantanamo.....
Well, that's a brave first post. Let's see how long it takes dblboggie to reply with "facts" based on White House-provided documents.
It smelled fishy when I read that "Hitler was democratically elected". That was kind of twisting history too much.
By the time the "democratic" election of Hitler took place, if you didn't do as he told you, you'd end up in concentration camps like over 6,000 Jehovah's Witnesses, millions of jews and other objectors of conscience did.
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#203607 - 01/31/0601:30 AMRe: A Bush Presidency Poll
[Re: WesMordine]
JT
Menounos Numero Uno
Registered: 08/09/04
Posts: 66269
Loc: Nueva York
This has gone off topic and I'm about to close it. I searched for "Bush" on this page and it only came out once (besides the titles).
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#203608 - 01/31/0601:39 AMRe: A Bush Presidency Poll
[Re: OonGahDooHah]
greengunner
Banned
Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 1359
Loc: Walking in a Wenger wonderland...
Quote:
Quote: The Gary Condit case wasn't newsworthy.
I agree...
Quote: And please keep your condescending little comments to yourself I am perfectly able to use punctuation but don't bother.
I was only trying to help. It honestly was difficult to read your posts!
Quote: You keep saying read and re-read your comments but then come out and make an absurd comment like "the major media is conservative in this country" do you live in Facist Germany under Hitler or something? because thats quite possibly the most inane comment I've ever read.
Please, if you are going to quote me, make sure that you use my words, and not something that you are making up out of thin air. I didn't say "the major media" was conservative. I said the most popular news network in the country was conservative. Now I realize that by dubbing something "conservative", I have entered the realm of opinion... but I think it would be difficult to push the case that Fox News is liberal -- so at the very least, please don't pretend that conservative ideals are not out there in the public square from our major media outlets. Is this not a fair argument?
Quote: Don't try and belittle me by trying to say I'm some tabloid reading Jerry Springer watching peon because my typically liberal snobbish friend thats how people of your ilk always try and describe conservatives.
I'm sorry, but there are so many important stories that are underreported by our media, that I don't find it terribly important that they spend more time on one murder case. Sad though it may be, those things happen everyday... (and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there essentially zero evidence against Condit?)
Quote: Its that type of elitism that sickens me, and I assure you its misplace I'm probably more well read than you could ever hope to achieve.
Oh come on man, relax. We are having a tit for tat on a community message board. And if you don't want me to say things like "read more carefully," then simply respond to my post without putting words in my mouth!
Quote: "Oooh I'm so much smarter than you and my writing is so eloquent" well maybe you spend so much time preaching you have mastered the art of bullshit writing that doesn't actually make sense but looks good.
If you don't think I make sense, then simply explain why. I am honestly curious, and am always willing to be corrected and to learn from my mistakes.
Quote: Please don't try and insult my inteligence because I may not be J D Salinger but I can out debate and out think people like you without even trying.
You may well be able to out-think me (who am I to say otherwise?), but in my opinion you haven't out-debated much of anyone.
I wasn't teying to out debate you "there" man. I was just incredibly pissed that you would paint me as some ho-ho eating moron that was more interested in what was in the "weekly world news" than the actual news. I'm sure you have heard the saying don't judge a book by its cover, well thats what I and countless other people that don't escribe to the democratic agenda have to prove each and every day.
Nothing more nothing less
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Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 9652
Loc: In a country with no army =)
Actually, JT: Mr. Liftow here was implying a similarity (not saying that I 100% agree) between Hitler's rise to power and Mr. Bush's constant stepping over the American Constitution in the name of security.
It is all very much related "to the end of democracy", which is the option with the highest ammount of votes in the topic poll. Again, I don't 100% agree with that point of view.
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