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#1787930 - 02/27/09 12:45 AM Christian cure for homosexuality
The HB Offline
Hornio Bastardus

Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 17823
Loc: Australia
Interesting topic, I don't think sexual orientation can be changed though. It's quite possible to convince bisexual people to choose the straight path. But I don't believe it's possible to make a completely gay person turn 180 degrees.

Quote:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/lifeandstyle/...ge#contentSwap3

My name is Katrina Fox and I am a homosexual. As is the case with Alcoholics or Narcotics Anonymous, that admission is apparently the first step in my journey to become straight - according to Living Waters, an international ministry that offers courses to help people who suffer from a range of sexual problems or "brokenness", including same-sex attraction.

It's 9.30am on Saturday morning and I'm waiting for Living Waters' one-day Grace and Sexuality Conference at the Wesley Mission in Sydney to start. There's around 60 of us in attendance, old and young, from a range of ethnic backgrounds and my gaydar has honed in on a few fellow queers.

Boxes of tissues have been set out around the room by the organisers, presumably in anticipation of an outpouring of emotion. They're not disappointed as the band takes its place on stage and the head of the ministry, Ron Brookman, leads the audience in song and prayer.

Smiles turn to tears as it gets too much for several people and they break down sobbing. It's not unlike a Kylie or k.d. lang concert.

Brookman, according to the conference brochure, has been "transformed from homosexuality" and leads the Living Waters ministry from its headquarters in Ramsgate with his wife Ruth.

"I was living a double life as a pastor and immersed in the homosexual scene in Darlinghurst," he tells us. "I know what it is to live in utter brokenness and shame."

Brookman goes on to explain that God's image can only be displayed on earth when male and female come together in sexual union within the context of monogamous heterosexual marriage. Anything outside is a sin.

"Desire is powerful, which is why God has given boundaries," he asserts. "If boundaries were kept there would be no such thing as sexually transmitted diseases … there is no such thing as casual sex … the power of intimacy and sex is a foreshadow of what awaits us in heaven."

Homosexuality is a "handicap" but healing our "brokenness" is as simple as "yielding our lives to Jesus", he adds. Although it wasn't easy, Brookman says he has turned his back on the "homosexual lifestyle", but admits it is a struggle every day.

After a talk by Ruth Brookman on how she forgave her husband's sexual indiscretions with other men and they now live happily as a heterosexual couple, it's lunchtime. And I'm still gay.

After lunch the conference delegates break off to take part in a workshop of their choice. Naturally I pick the one on homosexuality, led by Ian Lind, who founded Living Waters in Australia 30 years ago. Before becoming a Christian, Lind was part of the gay scene in Sydney for 10 years. For him, the two are mutually exclusive. "There is no such thing as a gay Christian," he proclaims.

"I don't believe you can sit in church as a gay person. I chose homosexuality like others choose drugs or alcohol. When I gave myself to the Lord, I turned my back on my lifestyle so I was no longer gay. I am still attracted to men, but I never went back to that lifestyle or gave in to my feelings."

The workshop has drawn around 20 people. One couple is concerned about their son who came out as gay a year ago. "It's there in your upbringing," Lind asserts.

"If our mothers nurtured us and our fathers spent time with us, we wouldn't have those issues." Discussion ensues about whether a person is "born gay".

While Lind is adamant this is not the case - despite various research studies identifying biological factors such as prenatal hormones and brain structure that may be related to sexual orientation - others in the room argue it doesn't matter if people are born gay. "As Christians we shouldn't be worried about this," says one participant. "You can still be redeemed and choose to live a pure life."

You've probably realised by now I have no intention of yielding my life to Jesus or repenting my "sin". Unlike many people who come to organisations such as Living Waters, I don't struggle with being a dyke. I live with my girlfriend of 15 years, a gorgeous, passionate and talented therapist who's blessed with amazing cheekbones, and when I stare at a photo of Debbie Harry, shame is the last thing I'm feeling.

But for those who leave ex-gay programs, unsuccessful in their quest to become straight, depression and suicide are common, according to Anthony Venn-Brown, a former Assemblies of God preacher, author of A Life of Unlearning and leader of the Freedom 2 B[e] organisation that offers support to gay and lesbian Christians. Venn-Brown went through several ex-gay programs before embracing his homosexuality and is adamant such programs don't work. "You can't recover from your sexual orientation," he says.

"You can deny and suppress it but you can't change it. Trying to be someone I wasn't caused great stress, a sense of failure and shame that eventually led to depression."

Brookman and Lind say they are now heterosexual, despite still finding men sexually attractive, and couldn't be happier. Living Waters runs a 30-week course for people "struggling with same-sex attraction" although both men admit it's often necessary for a person to complete the course three or four times to really "get it".

In an interview a few days after the conference, Brookman was keen to point out that Living Waters "goes to great pains not to condemn people in homosexuality or any other form of sexual brokenness, but seeks to reach out with compassion to those who are ill at ease with their sexuality".

It's true that at that no time during the conference did anyone express outright hatred towards gay or lesbian people, but references to Satan and "the enemy" in the context of discussing the "sin" of homosexuality hardly empower us.

Spending the day with people who continually reinforced the message that a core part of my identity is "broken" or a "handicap" or an addiction to be overcome didn't exactly fill me with joy. The musical parts of the day were the best. I'm partial to a nice uplifting singalong but instead of suppressing my sexuality while revering a male deity, I'll take dancing naked at Coogee women's pool with a bunch of hot sheilas chanting "We All Come From The Goddess" any day. Or the Mardi Gras Parade. Because I'm still gay.
_________________________
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#1789414 - 02/28/09 01:45 AM Re: Christian cure for homosexuality [Re: The HB]
Marvin_Candle Offline
Dharma Spokesman

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 7153
Loc: an epic hug
I agree HB, if things were the other way around and heterosexuality was considered "wrong" and there was a course to turn people gay, I know it wouldn't work on me or any other straight person, so why should it be any different for gays? To be perfectly honest, I think the only reason anyone is ever homophobic is because they think it's gross to see two dudes going at it. They can hide behind their religious excuses and say that it's not what God wants because same sex couples can't procreate, but in my opinion, if I'm not too out of line here, I think that's what a lot of people use religion for: something to hide behind so that they can go around judging and blaming everyone but themselves every time they see something they don't like. I hate when they always try to say how "Satan" makes you do bad things. No, you do bad things, take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming a fictional being! This is also why they say people aren't born gay. Because if they are, they don't have anything to blame for it, and if there's no cause then they can't find a real "cure".

No offense to those who actually use religion positively, but one reason why I don't agree with religion is because it seems too corrupt. "Listen to us or you'll go to hell" is pretty much the motto of Christianity. That's fear mongering, if you do that then people will only be listening to you for the wrong reasons - because they don't want to go to hell, not because they actually believe in or care about their religion.

Find your own meaning in life, don't let other people tell you how to live!

Sorry for the rant, narrow-minded Christians just anger me. I hope I didn't say anything too offside... shifty
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#1789798 - 02/28/09 11:42 AM Re: Christian cure for homosexuality [Re: Marvin_Candle]
EE_EE Offline
Hardcore

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3477
Loc: On the way to heaven
Originally Posted By: Marvin_Candle

Sorry for the rant, narrow-minded Christians just anger me.


Matthew 7:13-14 (NIV)

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.


And since a lot of homosexual men were molested by a male when they were kids, it seems to me that to cure or reduce male homosexuality society should stop men from molesting boys.
_________________________
I like my ladies two dimensional.

Some of my favs:

Melissa Joan Hart
Beverley Mitchell
Jessica Biel
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#1789843 - 02/28/09 12:49 PM Re: Christian cure for homosexuality [Re: EE_EE]
The_Amber_Spyglass Offline
Monitor Tanned

Registered: 11/07/05
Posts: 5890
Loc: Jordan College, Lyra's Oxford
You are lower than pond slime EE_EE you know that?
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#1789916 - 02/28/09 01:54 PM Re: Christian cure for homosexuality [Re: The_Amber_Spyglass]
1oldminer Offline
Permanent Resident

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 7402
Loc: Stopping the Juubi's revival
Originally Posted By: matt75
You are lower than pond slime EE_EE you know that?


Why is his comments so offensive? EE_EE gave his opinions on the matter. He didn't make any derogetory comments towards homosexuals he was reffering to the majority of people make poor choices in life that leads away from God, regardless of sexual orientation, status, class or whatever are offered to enter into that path (hence the the term broad is the gate where many enter in) which leads to eternal life with God. However the path is narrow, because of so many dangers of sin along the way , so many stumble,fall/led away from that narrow path and are lost and so very few make to the end.

In the Book of Mormom, Nephi (an ancient american prophet) recalls his father's dream of a similar path that went by the way of a polluted river, this path was like a walkway with an iron rod that guided the people to the end of the path which led to the tree of life which symbolized eternal life with God, the fruit of that tree was far more delicious and sweeter than all of the fruit known to man. The fruit respresented eternal salvation and to live the kind of life God lives.

Across the other side of the riverbank was a large and spacious building grander and bigger than any building that was ever built( this great building which represented worldly values and attitudes) and therin was a great multitude dressed in all manner of finery and material things, the multitude in Nephi's father's dream taunted and scorned at the people along path leading to the tree of life.

Some on the path, stumbled and fell into the filthy waters, some wandered off towards the large and spacious building and drowned into the river, some wondered off into the wilderness and were lost. Those who made to the tree of life were few but they overcame the world and recieved a fullness of eternal life.

Why did so few made to the tree of life? Because they held unto the iron rod which represented the the word of God which guided those few through the straight and narrow path that lead to eternal life.
_________________________
To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary.
To one without faith, no explanation is possible". ~Thomas Aquinas


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#1789989 - 02/28/09 03:15 PM Re: Christian cure for homosexuality [Re: The_Amber_Spyglass]
EE_EE Offline
Hardcore

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3477
Loc: On the way to heaven
Originally Posted By: matt75
You are lower than pond slime EE_EE you know that?


Can I assume you're gay?
_________________________
I like my ladies two dimensional.

Some of my favs:

Melissa Joan Hart
Beverley Mitchell
Jessica Biel
Elisha Cuthbert
Laura Prepon
Leah Remini
Mackenzie Rosman
Vanessa Lengies
Mandy Moore

------


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#1790062 - 02/28/09 04:56 PM Re: Christian cure for homosexuality [Re: EE_EE]
The_Amber_Spyglass Offline
Monitor Tanned

Registered: 11/07/05
Posts: 5890
Loc: Jordan College, Lyra's Oxford
No. If I was, so what?

So in your mind there is no difference between homosexuality and paedophilia?
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Read my fiction writer's blog. Book reviews, discussion and advice for writers.

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#1790129 - 02/28/09 05:53 PM Re: Christian cure for homosexuality [Re: Marvin_Candle]
Cabinet Offline
Established Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 800
Originally Posted By: Marvin_Candle
I agree HB, if things were the other way around and heterosexuality was considered "wrong" and there was a course to turn people gay, I know it wouldn't work on me or any other straight person


There is; it's called prison.

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#1790278 - 02/28/09 07:57 PM Re: Christian cure for homosexuality [Re: EE_EE]
Kthulhu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 1470
Loc: R'lyeh
Originally Posted By: EE_EE
And since a lot of homosexual men were molested by a male when they were kids, it seems to me that to cure or reduce male homosexuality society should stop men from molesting boys.


Funny how the Catholic Church, the largest Christian organization in the world, seems to disagree with you, and think they should be protected. At least as long as they were wearing a collar when they did the molesting.

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#1790950 - 03/01/09 12:44 AM Re: Christian cure for homosexuality [Re: EE_EE]
Marvin_Candle Offline
Dharma Spokesman

Registered: 11/23/06
Posts: 7153
Loc: an epic hug
Originally Posted By: EE_EE

And since a lot of homosexual men were molested by a male when they were kids, it seems to me that to cure or reduce male homosexuality society should stop men from molesting boys.


Society should stop men from molesting anyone, yes, but I don't see how it can be the cause of homosexuality if there are just as many gay men who have never been molested (and there probably are). Whether you like it or not, some people are just born gay and there's nothing you can do about it, so we might as well accept it. shrug
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