I think Obama is doing what he can possibly. Bush on the other hand would likely sign any paperwork handed to him without reading it. Or wouldn't put much input into what is being debated. Fighting over the details of it is a good thing. Otherwise a more horrible reform will pass through. This is something that should be hurried, but not rushed.

I already know what I think, so I was letting you all run with it for a while.

It's a pretty interesting mix of opinions, but it almost seems like people are starting to soften a little. Glad enough time is being taken, but ready for something.

I'm still a little hazy on dblboggie's stance :

If only you weren't so vague with your opinion, my friend!

Generally I agree with less fed government, but as an accountant schooled in economics, I just can't agree here. If funding roads, bridges, school improvements... is a good thing to put people back to work, it's going to cost a considerable amount of money. It is far more efficient, more likely to be successful, and safer for investors, for the federal goverment to issue the Treasury Notes to raise the money than for all the little state and communities to issue municipal bonds to raise the money. Trying to do the same thing locally would cost more in interest and be much more difficult to attract investors to raise the money. This is like the one time, and the one occassion, when you would want to use your pooled strength as a country over trying to do it at the local level.

Unless you're thinking we don't need any stimulus. That's a different argument.

Well, the Senate has passed the bill, a joint House/Senate committee has reached a compomise on the two bills. Now the House and Senate have to approve it and it's off to Barack's house for a President's Day signing.

So really, what impact do you think it will have? Who will it help? Who will still need help?

I'm starting to turn on this. I'm starting to get queazy about the amount of money being spent, either directly or by waving the right to collect taxes.

Housing prices have pretty much stabilized. The companies have trimmed tons of jobs. If housing values have bottomed out, we still will have more fall out from people who got in over their heads, but that should be about it. The stock market bubble certainly burst as well. It's only a matter of time before people start picking "bargain" stocks and easing back in.

The market has always run in cycles. If the housing market is at or below where it should be, and the stock market is below where it should be... I can't help wondering if the stimulus package were a six pack of beer and bag o' chips for everyone, if the markets wouldn't look better by 3rd or 4th quarter anyway.

A lot of people felt bad for Barack because he inherited such a miserable economy which would make him look bad. Like he was in a no-win situation. Well, I disagree. If the markets are at or near their troughs anyway, couldn't his stimulus package be anything , and the economy will start moving the right way again anyway? I think he's in a no-lose situation.

So what do you think? Are we recovering by the end of this year anyway? Do we really need this much debt?

Funny you should mention that bit about Bush signing something unread or not putting to much input into it JT, because that is just what Obama DID!!!!!

Obama turned the writing of this bill over to Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid!

And now we have a ONE THOUSAND, FIVE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY EIGHT PAGE BILL!!!

And guess what? Not only has Obama not read it, NOT A SINGLE SENATOR OR CONGRESSMAN HAS READ IT!!!!!

It seems you take every opportunity you can to get a shot in on Bush when the Savior himself, the all holy Barack Obama has already broken SEVERAL promises that he made on the campaign trail - and he's broken them pushing through the first bill of his young administration!

He promised more transparent government - but not only were the American public shut out from getting any details on this bill, but many of their elected representatives, Republican Representatives in the House, were completely shut out of the drafting of the bill and all but ignored on offered amendments.

So much for transparent government.

Obama promised that he would cut any pork or earmarks out of bills and make these known to the American people.

The stimulus bill is LOADED with pork. Nary a peep from Obama.

You say this bill is something that should be hurried but not rushed - I say this bill is something that should be killed!

This bill is a disaster. The Democrats in the House (after shutting out the Republicans), sat down and drafted what amounts to a Christmas wish list of government spending projects they've been dying to get through for years!

This bill is simply the largest slush fund in the nation's history - hell, it's probably the largest slush fund in world history.

And not only has this thing been rushed - it's been JAMMED down the throats of the American people with a complicit mainstream media doing nothing but singing the praises of Obama and the plan.

Yeah, Obama's a great guy doing "what he can" while hiring a tax cheat to run the Treasury Dept and the IRS; trying to hire another tax cheat to run HHS, and a third tax cheat to be the Performance Czar. And Obama would have gladly overlooked these tax cheats cheating (as demonstrated by his steadfast backing of Daschle even after outted on the taxes) if only the pesky alternate media hadn't jumped on it so hard.

This is why the Democrats are now all abuzz about bringing back the "Fairness Doctrine" (could there be a more ironic name for a censorship bill?). God forbid that Americans should be exposed to a point of view not approved of by the Democrats.

The hypocrisy on the left is simply astounding!!! Nearly every single mainstream media outlet has been CLEARLY co-opted by the Democrats (the vast majority of mainstream media are registered and vote Democrat), they dominate television news AND entertainment venues, as well as the entertainment industry (hollywood), they rule the daily newspapers and weekly news magazines - there are even more liberal outlets on cable TV.

Conservatives have the following outlets - ONE section of the Wall Street Journal (the editorial pages), the Washington Times, talk radio and the internet (which is not ruled by conservatives or liberals). That's it.

So not satisfied that they rule over nearly ALL outlets of information, the Democrats are out to censor conservative talk radio.

*Sigh* This is not going to end well for America...

We are so much better off with Obama rather than Bush. SO much better off.

Republicans have lost the last two elections. Why do the Demos have to do anything and everything the Reps want? Demos better lead us out of Bush's mess, and stop listening to failed Republican ideas, or we will vote them out of office too.

Yeah... there's a good little party proletariat response. Why should the American people the Republican Representatives in Congress represent be heard at all by the Democrats. Yep, the Democrats rule now.

And Obama's promise that he was open to ANY suggestions that would work from Democrat or Republican was just a blatant lie.

We all know what works to turn around a recession - tax cuts targeted at job creators.

Unfortunately, this would create private sector jobs and would not return an ounce of power to the Federal government.

So Obama's not going to take that route - rather he's going the FDR (failed) route - bigger government, more government, government projects under government control and government handouts with government strings attached.

I am soooo looking forward to saying "see I told you so."

It almost makes it worth the pain we're in for...

The problems that we have now go way further back than just Bush's reign of stupidity! The major problem is credit cards and irresponsible spending! People know the CC company's will charge interest rates that are through the roof! Yet people still spend "collectively" millions each year on crap they don't need! If you make 50k a year then not spending 75k would be a good start! However, the greed of the corporate criminal [censored] also needs to be dealt with by the government. Even though most of the criminal [censored] pretty much make up the federal government! What it all boils down to is that if people in charge don't want to help "or" they have something to gain from it they will not be willing to help.

What alternate reality are you referring too?
The financial mess with the banks and foreclosures is because
of the Democrats....Bush and the Republicans tried to stop
the problem years ago; but, the Democrats voted it down and
now we have this big banking/foreclosure mess.
Stop blaming Bush; for problems created by the Democrats.

As for Obama...he hasn't been in office for even 30 days;
and he's already crying about "the mess" from the previous
administration. Obama knew full well the state of the
economy before he ran for president. He shouldn't have
taken the job if he didn't like the way things were.
Be a man; President Obama and don't blame the Republicans
for a Democrat created mess.

(by the way people....several years ago when the Republican
party tried to stop the banks from making all these bad loans
...a Senator from Illinois was a key voice in preventing the
Republicans from putting a stop to these crazy loans....
who was that Senator from Illinois?.......it was Barack Obama.)

You tell'em Doc!!! I'll leave you to it and take a break. You've got this under control...

Good job...

Actually, Obama did NOT know the "state of the economy before he ran for president". None of us normal folks did. Only now that Bush has left office has much more of the truth come out.

The problems with the car companies needing many tens of billions, as just one example, was not known until AFTER the election, naturally. It would have been bad politics for McCain (the alternative) in Mich and Ohio if that had come out early.

The banks needing an extra 2.5 Trillion dollars, was only made known about two weeks ago. That would definitely not have been good for McCain anywhere if known before the election.

If McCain/Palin had been elected, we would have only tried to lower taxes on the very wealthy and on oil companies, and tried to build more bridges to nowhere in Alaska. Lowering taxes on wealthy people in corporations has led directly to this financial failure. It is failed Bush Republican policy.

I remember McCain saying as late as Sept 2008 that "the economy is fundamentally sound," before having to change his mind. I do not remember Obama saying that before or after the election.

Agreeing with musclewarrior that too much credit was a problem. Too many people buying homes they couldn't afford to pay for once teaser interest rates went away. Too many interest-only home loans. Bush's "home ownership" ideal was basically a good idea, but the devil was in the details. Bush never looked closely enough at any of his ideas. Poor fellow - the job was just too much for him.

If Obama didn't know anything about the economy then he is the
biggest fool ever. The stock market has been declining for a
few years; and the past year was even more dramatic.
The Economic downturn has been all over the News for a long
time...all Obama had to do, was to open a newspaper or watch
TV or something. So....he knew nothing about the Econimic
problems in America.....and you wanted him to be President?



The problems with the car companies has been known for YEARS,
and Years, and Years. People have been buying Toyota, Honda,
and other foreign cars for many years because Detroit didn't
build cars that people wanted...and now finally "the dam broke"
This didn't just happen a few weeks ago.



Again....the Republicans saw this Banking problem years ago
and tried to head it off. But; were stopped by the Democrats
and Senator Obama.



Since McCain isn't President; we will never know...but;
this plan of McCain's wasn't his best.



I don't know if McCain said that or not....either way; at least
he was aware of problems with the Economy....and you say Obama
knew nothing about the Economy......

For your sake; as well as mine. I hope Obama can do some
good and take some steps to jump start the Economy.