SuperiorPics Celebrity Forums: The Wrestling Thread (Version 8)

This Weeks RAW

Many, myself included, have always viewed Punk's WWE work rationally, not letting his Indy work cloud our judgment, and as such have noted how mediocre it's always been. Clunky, anti-climactic, often heat-less PPV matches and mic work that's never really clicked, Punk's hardly been impressive in his WWE run thus far. In fact, barring that one match he had with Johnny Morrison where he won the ECW title, I can't think of anything he's done that I'd grade as better than average. And I'd say a lot of that was down to Morrison, who's incredibly underrated.

It's not just Punk's performances either. The way he's been booked is another reason why I'd have never put the belt on him last night. Since winning the briefcase he's been portrayed as an absolute chump, losing clean to guys who you wouldn't even put the IC belt on. Didn't he lose to The Miz recently? F*cking hell. He was nowhere near ready for that title win and while it certainly came as shock and made last night's episode feel fresher than usual, I still can't fathom why everyone's celebrating because he's absolutely destined to be the next Chris Jericho or Rey Mysterio in that he's a joke of a champion who, despite holding the belt, is never portrayed as a true main event player. You can't just throw a belt on somebody and make them a star, you have to actually build them up before they win it, then continue building them up once they're the champ. They did the opposite with Punk, burying him six feet under in the months leading up to it and then having him win it in the flukiest of manners. I thought Mysterio's run was the worst ever, with Jericho's a close second, but it looks like we have a new contender.

"Some of the treatment of Punk in WWE has been poor, but a lot of that was down to the fundamental problems of ECW. Now that he's on RAW, I can't see the same thing happening."

If you believe this, then you must be blind because it's already happening and it started with the way in which he won the belt. Sneaking in and stealing a title victory over Cena and then Taker worked for Edge because he was a heel. That's what heels do, steal championships like a coward. But to have a babyface like Punk do it? What a f*cking pussy. It made him look like a complete fluke who would've had no chance of winning the title otherwise and then between JBL explaining as much to the viewers and Cena referring to Punk as, "kid," it came across just as it did when Rey was champion; as a mid-carder playing with the big boys. If they truly wanted to make a star out of Punk then he would've cashed the briefcase in fairly and/or won cleanly. Instead he cheated his way to a victory and then was getting a battering from JBL too until a distraction cost him the bout. That's another thing; he's only been champion one night and he's already suffering from Chris Jericho syndrome in that he's the champion but the main event feud doesn't actually involve him. When Jericho was the champion the real feud was between Stephanie, Triple H and their dog. Here CM Punk is the champ but the real feud is between JBL and Cena, with Punk acting as nothing more than a plot device.

Sure, it was cute, and it definitely made a change from Triple H boring the piss out of me as the champion of RAW, but you'd have to be incredibly deluded to think Punk's destined for a long reign or even one where he's portrayed as the top dog. At least with Jericho and Mysterio it took a couple of weeks, maybe months before you noticed how terribly they were being booked. In Punk's case it was noticeable in the space of two hours. Don't get me wrong, I want fresh faces being pushed as much as the next guy. But that isn't what this is. Because a, "push," requires clean wins and a positive portrayal, neither of which Punk has ever had, even in winning the World Title.

"CM Punk is not a crap wrestler. There are far, far worse people on the roster who they could have chosen for this spot. Whether or not he has been misused in the past year or not, is irrelevant. They have finally decided to give him a chance."

Of course it's relevant! Or would you argue that Rey Mysterio was a successful World Champion too, despite being presented as a total jobber who lost all of the time? How about Chris Jericho's run when he was portrayed as an afterthought? A huge success? A World Champion that's been portrayed as on the same level as The f*cking Miz, without any rehabilitation period in which to regain some momentum is a terrible choice of champion, especially if the way in which he then wins it is by practically stealing it. Punk so far is a complete loser who happened to be at the right place at the right time. And to say that such a portrayal of a World Champion is irrelevant suggests either ignorance, blind fandom or plain stupidity.

"Yeah, Punk won the title in a bullshit way, but that's the whole point of MITB title shot."

No it's not. RVD didn't steal the belt using it. He clearly and fairly announced when and where he would be cashing it in, like a babyface should do. Unless said babyface is being purposely or accidently portrayed as a cowardly jobber, anyway. Actually, I'd say that's probably the most interesting debate we could have here. CM Punk being given the Mysterio and Jericho treatment; did they do it on purpose or are they just clueless?

"His title run is for shock value and nothing more. Maybe he'll make more of it and earn himself a proper run down the line.

People are getting too worked up and missing the whole point."

I'm not missing the point, I'm just pointing out firstly how deluded people are if they think it's anything else, and what a shame it is that they did what they did with with this year's Money In The Bank angle. The Money In The Bank concept has always been fantastic and should be viewed by the bookers as a motivator, with them giving it to a midcarder they're willing to push and then having a year to make him a main eventer. Brock Lesnar winning a title shot by becoming King Of The Ring is the perfect example. He won the title shot despite being nowhere near ready and then it forced the bookers to make him into a main event star as quickly as possible. The Money In The Bank should exist as a similar concept, forcing the WWE to make new main eventers by pushing fresh faces. That the trigger was pulled, "for shock value and nothing more," with a guy who's nowhere near ready is incredibly depressing. Sure, it feels fresh for the short term, but by putting it on a guy like Punk at a time like this, it's going to be nowhere near as fresh in a month or two than it may have been had they actually built him up and then put it on him when he may have been ready and able to do something with it.

I'm tired of champions like Mysterio, Jericho and now Punk. I want champions like Brock Lesnar, Steve Austin and The Rock.

"Purely for argument's sake, I think there's a case to be made that this whole reign could be made to look quite interesting if the booking over the next few weeks is good; perhaps they're trying to put Punk across as the fluke who gradually comes to hold his own? That he keeps fluking victories, and then eventually starts proving himself after some close-run contests. Maybe even have an "ultimate underdog" angle, where one of the main-event challengers decides to chuck all opportunity out of the window, DQ-ing himself just to beat Punk down severely and maybe "cripple" him - then, when the next PPV's re-match comes up, Punk's in the dramatic position of being on the back foot, because he's been fluky, and he's now badly injured to boot."

Despite my reservations about his work, I'd still love for them to truly push Punk. Honestly, I would. I'd love for them to truly push anyone. If Punk starts gaining credibility by continuously winning, eventually gaining cleaner and cleaner wins before becoming a genuine main event star, then I'd be over the moon. But my faith in their desire and ability to make main eventers is almost non-existent. And as if my optimism wasn't low enough, I can't remember a single time when they've done the underdog gimmick and it hasn't resulted in an out and out burial, Mysterio's reign being the most obvious example. Every single time they've ever portrayed somebody as an underdog, or as on a losing streak, I can't remember said underdog or loser ever turning things around, it just ends abruptly. Matt Hardy's another one. He lost, lost and lost before the angle eventually fizzled out and it took nearly three years before he started winning again. Can you think of any examples where they've done the underdog story correctly? I'm genuinely drawing a blank.

And as for the irony in Edge losing his belt in a similar manner to how he's won it in the past, it's not lost on me. But surely I'm not the only one who views such, "justice," and, "clever story-telling," as nothing more than the type of thing somebody who doesn't want Punk to succeed would say, when in reality they know winning the belt in such a manner cuts his legs off before he even gets to run with the belt? Not to be one of those mongs who wishes death on Triple H and Stephanie for everything in the entire world ever, but it's hardly a stretch to imagine Triple H coming up with such an idea, is it? "Yeah, I could lose my belt to Cena, but wouldn't it be more suprising and fitting if Edge loses his belt to Punk tomorrow night on RAW?! Imagine if he lost it in the same way he beat Cena and Taker, it'd be so ironic and clever~!"

Meanwhile Triple H heads to Smackdown as their champion and both Edge and Punk come out of the situation with far less stock than he has, thanks to, "irony," and, "justice."

"Out of all the faces left on Raw, he was the only one you could have done this with."

Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't have pushed him. I'm saying the way in which they went about it, From Mania all the way to last night, has been absolutely terrible and, if history has proven anything, it won't result in a true star being created like it could and should have.

Still, Santino was tremendous and Chris Jericho's new character, while obviously not on the same level, reminds me more and more of Bret Hart's anti-American character with every promo he cuts. Heels who actually have valid points of view are awesome.

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Lacey - Thank you for the memories and for everything you contributed to ROH and especially SHIMMER, I for one appreciate it and will miss you, Good Luck in all your Future Endeavors.

Barry Windham - a Legend on Earth, see also; "God".

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